Study: Kids Bullied in Gym, Sports Avoid Future Activity

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Study: Kids Bullied in Gym, Sports Avoid Future Activity

Post by Earl on Sun Jul 06, 2014 7:34 pm

For the record, I'm not a sedentary guy.

At least I've not been sedentary for the last seven years. I've spent a small fortune on personal trainers at a local health club working on a bodybuilding program. I've been amazed at the results!

But I wouldn't set foot in a health club until I was 57 years old. Largely because of the completely negative experience of the mandatory P.E. of my youth. An experience that was shared by many other nonathletic guys of my generation.

It's still a problem today.



http://www.athleticbusiness.com/more-news/study-kids-bullied-in-gym-sports-avoid-future-activity.html

Study: Kids Bullied in Gym, Sports Avoid Future Activity

by Lois M. Collins, Deseret News     January 2014





AthleticBusiness.com has partnered with LexisNexis to bring you this content.




Copyright 2014 The Deseret News Publishing Co.
Deseret Morning News (Salt Lake City)


When kids are bullied during physical activities like PE classes and sports, they tend to withdraw from being physically active -- not just in class, but in general. A year later, kids who are picked on are less active, according to a study led by BYU researchers.

That's true of both overweight and healthy-weight kids, the study found. The research is published in the Journal of Pediatric Psychology.

The research touches on two different factors in child well-being that concern experts. First, physical activity -- or its lack -- and the resulting weight gain have serious ramifications for both present and future health, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the American Academy of Pediatrics and others. Research suggests that only 8 percent of school-age children get the recommended one hour of physical activity a day that federal guidelines say they need. Obesity is considered by health officials to be a national epidemic that includes children.

At the same time, the U.S. Department of Education's National Center on Educational Statistics noted that at least 13.5 million episodes of bullying were reported in 2011, ranging from insults to threats and physical harm. It's not a count of how many students were actually bullied, since some students were likely bullied in more than one way and other students probably never reported incidents, but it is suggestive.

Intrigued by earlier research that suggested kids who are bullied by peers may become more sedentary, the researchers in the BYU-led study decided to look at what happens when the bullying itself involves physical activity. "Kids may be teased about their physical skills, ostracized when teams are chosen for sports, or criticized for their physical appearance when they wear exercise clothing," said lead researcher Chad D. Jensen, assistant professor in the Department of Psychology at Brigham Young University.

Sitting it out

"Children who have been criticized for their physical skills, chosen last and ridiculed seem to avoid physical activity, perhaps because from previous experience they figure it's punishing and they'll stay on the sidelines," Jensen said.

The researchers asked 108 students from several Midwest grade schools questions that ranged from what their diets were like to how they were treated by peers. The research focused on a "constellation of physical, psychological, emotional and academic functioning," Jensen said.

Using two surveys, they asked about health and activities, feelings, whether the children had problems with other children and how they felt about and performed in school. They also asked about bullying, although they didn't call it that, measuring things like feeling put down and perceptions of how others see them, as well as how upset the child felt as a result of how he or she was treated.

They found that even a year later, children ages 9 to 12 who had been teased during physical activity were less active than those who had not been teased. The finding was especially true for healthy-weight kids a year later, he added. Overweight children who were teased experienced a decrease in their health-related quality of life, including physical, social and academic well-being.

Activity matters

"Children's early experiences with physical activity can influence their exercise habits well into adulthood," Jensen said. He cites the benefits of an active lifestyle: reduced risk for obesity, depression, diabetes, sleep problems and other physical and mental health issues.

The American Academy of Pediatrics "Bright Futures" report notes that "physical activity is an essential component of a healthy lifestyle and must begin in infancy and extend throughout adulthood. Regular physical activity increases lean body mass, muscle and bone strength and promotes good physical health. It fosters psychological wellbeing, can increase self-esteem and capacity for learning and can help children and adolescents handle stress."

Jensen hopes the study will serve as a call to action. It highlights how important it is to prevent bullying in schools and on the playing field. "We encourage educators and other adult leaders to intervene if children are being teased during physical activity and to consider physical education classes and recess important domains for bullying prevention," he said.

The other researchers were Christopher C. Cushing of Oklahoma State University and Allison R. Elledge of University of Kansas.

EMAIL: lois@deseretnews.com, Twitter: Loisco



January 26, 2014



Copyright © 2014 LexisNexis, a division of Reed Elsevier Inc. All Rights Reserved.

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Re: Study: Kids Bullied in Gym, Sports Avoid Future Activity

Post by Big Fat Heretic on Sat Jul 12, 2014 7:25 am

Good evening Earl:

Well, I'm BAAAAAAAK!!!

OK, in the article it said the following . . . . .


When kids are bullied during physical activities like PE classes and sports, they tend to withdraw from being physically active -- not just in class, but in general. A year later, kids who are picked on are less active, according to a study led by BYU researchers.


Well, actually . . . during the summer months when school was out, I did get my exercise.

I liked riding my bicycle. We lived in a small town up in northern Minnesota, and I liked to ride my bike on the winding road through Jay Cooke State Park which was about a few miles out of town.

And even though my left knee was crippled up, and in constant pain, and I walked with a limp, that still didn't stop me from riding my bike, or hiking in the woods.

I was just lousy at sports, and unable to run, which of course, is considered a crime in our morally corrupt right-wing society.

Oh, but if a football player rapes someone, that's not considered a crime!

Anyway . . . . .

During the summer months, we would go out traveling to get away from that rotten neighborhood to go camping in the state and national parks.

My mother, myself, and my younger brother and younger sister, we would leave town and go camping in the state parks and national parks. My stepfather preferred to stay home, and hang out in the bar, and get drunk.

We had a home built camper trailer, which my mother and I had built. My mother wasn't happy unless she had a hammer and saw in her hands, and we both had fun building our camper trailer. It popped straight up and had canvas sides. We also had a couple of pup-tents.

My mother taught us how to make a camp fire, and I was designated, keeper of the flames. I would bring back firewood, tend to the camp fire, and in the evening it was my job to light the Coleman lamp. We also had a Coleman cook-stove.

We also enjoyed singing around the campfire.

During our camping trips, if we were in a national park, there were nature trails. We would pick up a map of the hiking trail from a ranger station. In some parks, there was organized hiking lead by a park ranger.

We were members of the NCHA, the National Campers and Hikers Association when we lived up in Minnesota.

But, I was 13 years old, when we moved down from Minnesota to New Mexico.

Anyway . . . . .

During our camping trips I enjoyed swimming in a lake, and sometimes I would rent a rowboat for a couple of hours.

I would take my telescope with me, and I would sit up late at night looking at the moon and whatever planets were visible at the time. Sometimes I liked to spread a canvas on the ground, and lay my sleeping bag on top of the tarp, and just sleep under the stars when it wasn't raining, otherwise I would go into my pup-tent if it was raining.

There was this one park, the Pines Campground not far from Cloudcroft, New Mexico, altitude over 9,000 feet in the Lincoln National Forest. Not far from the campgrounds, there was a stone quarry, and I had a geologist pick, and I would chip away at the rock face looking for fossils. Found lots of small seashell and small clam fossils.

Also, we went on a guided tour of the big solar observatory at Sunspot, New Mexico.

Here are some pictures.


Solar Observatory at Sunspot, New Mexico, Lincoln National Forest


Inside one of the observatory domes

One summer we went camping at the Prescott National Forest in Arizona. There we went on a tour of the Lowell Observatory, not far from Flagstaff Arizona.

Here are some more pics.


Lowell Observatory near Flagstaff Arizona.
Notice the odd shaped dome.


Inside the Lowell Observatory. Notice the car tires on which the dome sits.
The car tires are driven by electric motors causing the dome to rotate.


A blueprint design for the Lowell Observatory.

The reason for the dome's odd shape is because, when Percival Lowell hired someone back in the 1880s to build the dome, the guy didn't know how to build a hemispherical dome out of wood. He only knew how to build railroad water towers that serviced the old steam locomotives, hence, the dome's strange shape. But it works just fine!

That telescope is over 130 years old, and it's still in use.

We have also been to many other places.

Here's some more pics.


The Badlands of South Dakota

Badlands National Park along Interstate 90. The Badlands is one of the rickets Oligocence epoch fossil beds dating back 37 million years. YES! The fossil beds are 37 MILLION years, and NOT a mere 6,000 years! And NO, it was NOT the result of the Genesis flood of Noah! Get over it Republican retards!!!


Mount Rushmore in The Black Hills of South Dakota.


The Devil's Tower in the Black Hills of Wyoming.

Yes, while the Black Hills are mostly in South Dakota, the Black Hills also extends across the border into Wyoming.

I have also been to Yellowstone National Park in Wyoming.


Great Fountain Geyser in Yellowstone National Park.


The Old Faithful Geyser, Yellowstone National Park

And in Arizona, I have been to the Grand Canyon, Saguaro National Park, and also, the Organ Pipe Cactus National Park.

Here are some more pics.


Saguaro National Park in Arizona


Organ Pipe Cactus National Monument.


The Grand Canyon in Arizona

And NO!!! The Grand Canyon was NOT carved out in just five minutes during the Genesis flood, which NEVER actually happened! Ya got that all you right-wing Republican RETARDS??? GET OVER IT!!!

And I have also been to the Meteor Crater not far from Winslow Arizona.


Meteor Crater not far from Winslow Arizona

I was about 17 years old when I saw the Meteor Crater. It was the result of a meteorite impact about 50,000 years ago. Yeah! FIFTY-THOUSAND years ago, and NOT 6000 years! Ya got that, ya sports-loving science-hating Republican retards??? GET OVER IT!!!

Anyway, when I was 17 years old, I was about 100 pounds overweight, weighing about 275 pounds.

And although my left knee was constantly in pain, and I walked with a limp, it didn't stop me from hiking down the winding footpath from the museum on the crater rim down to the center of the crater. I had a stock broken off from a yucca plant which I would lean on as a walking stick. It was a really cool looking walking staff, which I had sanded down real smooth, and varnished with dark wood stain. Yeah! Kind of makes it fun to be a partial crip!

Oh! But my younger, and much taller, skinny brother, he chickened out when we were only halfway down along the footpath, and he turned around and went back to the museum on the crater rim.

It took me about a half-hour to hike to the center of the crater, and about 45 minutes to hike back out because it was obviously downhill on the way in and uphill on the way out. And my left knee was really hurting by the time I got back up to the museum on the crater rim.

I had no real problem hiking about despite the pain in my left knee. It's just that I could not run, or climb a stupid rope in a gymnasium. But hiking was no real problem. And I course I had my really cool looking walking staff made from a yucca stock.

So, during the summer when school was out, I did get some exercise. But I walked at my own somewhat-slow pace limping on my left leg as I went.

Oh! But now . . . all the fucking retarded sports fans and coaches believe that kids should all go to sports camp during the summer, and now, many parents (I call them, helicopter parents) are hovering over their kids constantly, and now, they also advocate "structured" playtime.

NO! My mother, she was not a Helicopter Mama, who was constantly hovering over me and supervising me every step of the way. During the summer, I was allowed to be creative and explore around on my own. I had plenty of free time during the summer months when school was out.

When we lived in that small town in Northern Minnesota, there was a railroad track that ran past our neighborhood. I enjoyed hiking along the railroad track picking wild raspberries from the bushes the grew along the track.

Also, there was some woods across the track, and a ditch you had to climb down into and back up to get into the woods. Sometimes that ditch would get flooded after the rains. So, when the ditch was dry, I built a wooden footbridge about 25 feet long crossing the ditch. That was my little bridge.

Then I would go into the woods and pick wild blueberries, and red rhubarb, and my mother would make rhubarb pie.

So, when I was a kid, there was no "structured" playtime for me. I was a free spirit during the summer months.

I got out in the nice clean fresh air.

But NNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

Now, kids must be constantly supervised and hovered over by their Helicopter Mamas and Helicopter Daddies who send their kids to sports camps.

So, instead of getting fresh air, kids are forced to breath the rank musty air of a football locker room!

PEEEEEEEUUUUUUUUU!!!

When I was in school, during Gym class, I always hated the smell of a locker room! That rotten sweat-sock smell was aggravating! That smell made me angry! I hated it!  

Yeah! A lot of kids now-a-days are not allowed their own free time anymore. No, now it's "structured" playtime, doing "reps"! Uh huh! Repetition is what it's all about now. No creativity, and no originality. No! It all about doing reps!

You only have to be able to count to four while doing reps!

ONE, TWO, THREE, FOUR! ONE, TWO, THREE, FOUR!

No wait! I forgot! The first number is HUT! Yeah! Stupid me!

Yeah! it's HUT, TWO, THREE, FOUR! HUT, TWO, THREE, FOUR!

Uh huh! That's it! I get it now! I stand corrected.

Why don't more parents send their kids to Science Camp during the summers?

They'll still get some exercise, hiking in the woods looking for specimens to examine under a microscope, or climbing rocks digging for fossils, and going out at night in the sweet clean fresh air, setting up telescopes.

Oh! No, I keep forgetting! It's not really exercise unless you're playing with balls! Yeah! Stupid me!

And breathing locker room air is healthier than getting fresh air, I guess. Well, yeah . . . they still get some fresh air while playing sports outdoors.

But then, it's back into the locker rooms to breath in some more of the foul sweat-sock air!

Anyway . . . . .

I actually got a far better education during our summer vacations on our camping trips to the national parks, a far better education than I ever got going to that crummy school in that dirty little town.

Hey! Science is beautiful!!!

Astronomy is a beautiful science! And . . . GEOLOGY ROCKS!!!

Science is really cool and, like, awesome!

SPORTS SUCKS AND SPORTS IS UGLY AND IT SMELLS BAD!!!  
 
I'm outta here!!!
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Re: Study: Kids Bullied in Gym, Sports Avoid Future Activity

Post by Mrs. Earl on Mon Jul 14, 2014 4:56 am

I'm a bit confused, Big Fat Heretic. Are you saying that this scientific study that says that teasing and bullying has a detrimental effect on the physical activities of nonathletic children is wrong because of the personal experiences of one individual? In other words, are you saying that sports lovers are right? Or did you misread the title of this thread and think it said “Big Fat Heretic's Vacation Slides?”

By the way, since you see fit to rant about Creationists every single time you post, regardless of the topic, I would like to point something out to you: Earl is a Creationist. Earl is not a sports lover. Earl is not a Republican. Earl does, however, know more science than you will ever know. You may have started reading children's astronomy books in the third grade because you liked the pretty pictures, but Earl started reading high school biology textbooks in the first grade and has never ceased to love science. He has been known to carry around a chemistry textbook to read while waiting in line. And what he doesn't know about herptiles isn't worth knowing. So stop acting like you are the only person at this website who loves science. If you truly loved science, you would respect the scientific study described in the article that Earl posted.
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Re: Study: Kids Bullied in Gym, Sports Avoid Future Activity

Post by Big Fat Heretic on Mon Jul 14, 2014 7:00 am

Mrs. Earl wrote:I'm a bit confused, Big Fat Heretic. Are you saying that this scientific study that says that teasing and bullying has a detrimental effect on the physical activities of nonathletic children is wrong because of the personal experiences of one individual? In other words, are you saying that sports lovers are right? Or did you misread the title of this thread and think it said “Big Fat Heretic's Vacation Slides?”
 

No! The bullying really did have a very detrimental effect on me when I was a kid in school. I suffered head injuries when I was in school.

But, because my mother took us kids out on camping trips during the summer months, it didn't stop me from being active. Camping involved activities that I enjoyed. When we were home from camping, I was not as active because of the bullying I got in my neighborhood. That's why I would go off by myself into the woods across the railroad tracks when we were home from our camping trips, or riding my bicycle through Jay Cooke State Park, anything to get out of that crummy neighborhood. But, I went out walking at my own slower pace because of my crippled up left knee.

So, thanks to my mother taking us out on camping trips, getting bullied around in school did not discourage me from being active during the summers, no more than getting my head bashed against the corner of a concrete block wall by a sports-obsessed teacher in an argument over an Astronomy book that he would not allow me to read. That did not discourage me from reading. In fact, it made me even more defiant when it came to my choice off books, and I became more rebellious after having read about Galileo, and how he was punished by the Catholic church and the Holy Office of The Inquisition.

I don't know, but I guess, that my mother sort of knew, (as in the example of the above article as posted by Earl) that my having been bullied around in school might have placed me at a higher risk of being less active.

Yeah! My mother back then, more or less knew what is being discovered now. I call it advanced common sense!

We had a bad-mitten net set up in our back yard. But I didn't care to play it. I just wasn't interested in games, because games had rules on how to move your body, and how to move your arms and legs, and where to move and where to step. Playing repetitious games made me feel like a puppet.

No, I preferred my own activities where I could walk where I felt like walking, and ride my bicycle where I felt like riding, randomly exploring. I moved my arms and legs the way I felt like, and not according to a repetitious set of rules.

I preferred to go out exploring and discovering.

I don't do reps!!!

When I was out exploring the woods surrounding my home town up in Minnesota, I found a brook, and followed it, and found a nice pond that was great for swimming. Yeah! I had my own private pond that no one else knew about, because, in all the summers that I would go there, I never saw anybody else at that pond.


Mrs. Earl wrote:By the way, since you see fit to rant about Creationists every single time you post, regardless of the topic, I would like to point something out to you: Earl is a Creationist. Earl is not a sports lover. Earl is not a Republican. Earl does, however, know more science than you will ever know. You may have started reading children's astronomy books in the third grade because you liked the pretty pictures, but Earl started reading high school biology textbooks in the first grade and has never ceased to love science. He has been known to carry around a chemistry textbook to read while waiting in line. And what he doesn't know about herptiles isn't worth knowing. So stop acting like you are the only person at this website who loves science. If you truly loved science, you would respect the scientific study described in the article that Earl posted.

As I have said many times before in these forums, my mother had taught me how to read and write before I even started going to school. In grade school, during the 1st and 2ed grades, I might have started out reading children's books on science, but by the time I was only in the 3rd grade, I was already reading astronomy and geology books, and books on evolution from the library at high school level. Not children's books, but high school and adult level books.

And NO!!! It was not just for the "pretty" pictures either! OK???

I'm sorry, but, I consider that an insult!!!

Also, when ever I came across a word that I didn't understand, I would look it up in the Dictionary to learn how it was pronounced, and what the word meant, and added that word to my vocabulary.

Back when I was only in grade school, when I went to the public library (to check out books that I was not allowed to read in school) I had read books about the Inquisition, and those books were mostly text, and what few pictures they had were illustrations of torture devices, and illustrations of how those devices were applied, and illustrations of people getting burned at the stake, not at all pretty! No! There were no "pretty" pictures in those particular books! Yeah! The kind of pictures for which I would get banned again if I were to post them here in these forums.

Science is beautiful, but sometimes religion gets really ugly!!!

OK, I must confess . . . when I was in school, history was not my best subject. Probably because of the way it was presented in the class room which made it kind of boring. But, after having read about Galileo, and the Inquisition, I became more interested in history, especially Medieval and Renaissance history, which I read mostly on my own. For some reason, that was NOT taught much in my school. Gee! I wonder why!!!

Pretty pictures! YEAH RIGHT!!!

Anyway . . . . .

I lived in a small town where the elementary grades and high school grades were in the same building. So, my teachers in grades 2 through 4 allowed me to check out books from the high school library. The library consisted of two rooms. One room for elementary level books, and the other room for the high school level books.

So, the teachers I had in grades 1 to 4 were OK. They allowed me to check out books from the high school part of the school library. But when I was in the 5th grade, I had my first male teacher, who turned out to be a sports-obsessed tyrant. He was the one who bashed my head against the corner of a concrete block wall in an argument over an Astronomy book that he would not allow me to check out from the school library.

Anyway . . . during the summer months, when we weren't out camping, I checked out books from the public library that were at adult reading level, books that I was not allowed to read in school.  

Also,  When I was 13 years old, I scored 150 points on a standard IQ test.

OK, when I was a kid, I was raised a Presbyterian. Then I went to a Baptist church for a while.

Back when I was only 8 or 9 years old, while I did believe there was a God, I could not believe in the Genesis account of creation. It just didn't make any sense to me.

My Sunday school teacher told us about Adam and Eve, how God made Adam from the dirt of the earth and breathed into it, and how Eve was made from one of Adam's ribs, and she explained that was why all boys and men have one less rib on one side.

Yeah! She actually said that!!! I kid you NOT!!!

Well . . . when I was 9 years old, I had to have surgery done under my left arm to remove a bone spur that was pinching a nerve. It was called an exostosis. I got a chest X-ray. Being curious, I asked the doctor if I could see my X-ray picture. I got to see it, and I noticed that I had the same number of ribs on both sides.

That's when I said "Hey! My Sunday school teacher lied to me! I don't have one rib missing! I have the same number of ribs on both sides!"

After that, I began to wonder if other adults were also lying to me.

Anyway . . . I accepted evolution because it made more sense than the Genesis account.

One day while in Sunday school again, I said to my Sunday school teacher, that I believed that evolution and natural selection was the method that God used, or simply allowed to have happened, in order to make life on this planet. And then, she told me I that was going to go to Hell unless I changed my ways!

Yeah! Nice thing to say to a kid, trying to scare me to death! After that, my mother said that I didn't have to go to Sunday school or church anymore.

I have become more agnostic, meaning that I don't know if there is a God or not. But if there is some kind of deity, I seriously doubt that it's the God of the bible or any so-called holy book. OK?

So, as a kid, I had read up on Evolution, and Geology, and I still like to keep up on the latest developments.  

Sorry, but I have to be honest. I do know more than Earl does on the subjects concerning evolution, and geology, and about radiometric dating, and radioisotopes, and the difference between igneous and metamorphic rock layers and sedimentary deposits.

I'm just being honest. OK?

I remember when Earl had pointed out to me in the old Sports Sucks forums, about a radiologist that he knows who is a creationist, and that he was better educated than I am.

Well, I don't know about radiology, but I do know about radiometric dating of rocks.

OK, to be a good radiologist, or a good dentist, or a good surgeon, one doesn't have to know about evolution. I get that!

But to be an epidemiologist, and a pharmacologist, one does have to know about biological evolution, because, germs, viruses, and bacteria do evolve, and that's why, new vaccines have to be developed every year.

There is now, a new bacteria that has naturally evolved in the ocean just off of Japan called the Nyloniese Bacterium. It has naturally evolved the ability to break down and digest nylon. I hope that eventually, a new bacterium will evolve the ability to break down and digest all the plastic garbage we have been dumping into the oceans over the years.

And yes, something as complex as the eye has slowly evolved over many millions of years, starting out as just some light sensitive cells. And then, in some organisms, the patch of light sensitive cells became concave, giving directionality to the organism. The concave area gradually became deeper in succeeding generations until it was like a pinhole camera, enabling the organism to see dim images. In more succeeding generations, a mucus layer formed over the opening, and gradually forming a lens.

The octopus, or squid, actually has better eyes than us humans!

The human eye is actually poorly "designed" compared to most sea creatures and birds. Where the optic nerve connects to the top layer of the retina, there is a blind spot. But, because we have two eyes, the left eye compensates for the blind sport in the right eye, and the right eye compensates for the blind spot in the left eye.

But, in most other creatures, the optic nerve connects underneath the top layer of the retina, hence, no blind spot.

So much for so-called intelligent design. Eh?

Oh! By the way . . . . . back in 2013, I read a science article that said that CO2 levels had risen up to 300 parts per million, that highest it's been for the past 5 MILLION years.

Sea levels are due to rise another 1.5 meters by the year 2100.

Oh! But guess what! In North Carolina, Republican legislators wanted to pass a law against climate scientists publicly speaking out about this, threatening them with fines, and possible prison terms.

Fortunately, saner minds prevailed, and the legislation did not pass.

The last time a scientist was told to shut up about something was back in the 1600s when Galileo was told to never again, publicly mention that the earth and planets revolved around the sun, and he was put under house arrest for the remainder if his life.

Yeah! I know, I'm always talking about that in these forums!

And I'm not gonna stop either!!!
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Re: Study: Kids Bullied in Gym, Sports Avoid Future Activity

Post by Mrs. Earl on Wed Jul 23, 2014 12:48 am

I’m sorry I didn’t respond to your post earlier, BFH; but our younger daughter got married this weekend, and things have been kind of hectic around the Earl household for the last few weeks.  I want to thank you for being so civil in your response to my post.  I realize that it is very difficult to keep one’s temper when the topic is as close to one’s heart as science is to yours.

So, you do agree with the findings of the study described in Earl’s OP.  Perhaps this would have been more obvious in your original post if – instead of saying, “Well, actually . . . during the summer months when school was out, I did get my exercise” -- you had said, “There’s a solution to this problem.”  Regardless, your position is now clear.

I understand why you have the mistaken idea that you know more science than Earl does.  It’s because when you say “science,” you mean astronomy, geology, paleontology, and evolution.  When I say “science,” I mean biology, chemistry, and physics as well as astronomy, geology, etc.  If you are limiting the definition of “science” to astronomy, then you definitely know more than Earl because he has no interest in it.  But if you mean science in the sense that most people mean science, he does know more than you do.  

One reason I say this is because you evidently have no idea of what constitutes scientific proof of a theory.  This is illustrated by your so-called “proof” of the evolution of the eye.  You list eyes from several different animals, line them up from simplest to most complex, wave your hands and say, “Thus I have proved that eyes have evolved.”  Mathematicians call this the Hand-Wavy Method of proof.  When one comes to a step for which one has no proof, one says “Clearly” or “Obviously” and waves one’s hands and hopes that no one notices you made a statement with no supporting evidence.  Using your Hand-Wavy Method of proof, I could “prove” that Big Ben in London evolved from my old Cinderella watch I had as a kid.  

Another way in which you show a lack of knowledge of scientific method is your insistence that one or two examples constitute a case study.  For example, you frequently refer to the ridiculous things your Sunday school teacher said and then conclude that all Bible believers are as ignorant as she was.  If I used your reasoning, I would cite the example of my daughter’s biology professor.  He has more than one degree in science, he is an atheist, and he believes firmly in the theory of evolution.  He also believes that all human babies are born with tails.  Apparently, these tails are surgically removed by the doctors before the parents can see their babies because these doctors are all part of a giant worldwide conspiracy.  Using your method of reasoning, I would conclude that all atheists with degrees in science who believe in evolution are ridiculous ignorant yahoos.  

By the way, your contention that the fact that you and every other male on earth has twelve ribs somehow disproves the story of Adam and Eve also illustrates your ignorance of science.  When Earl was a child, his tonsils were surgically removed; but when both of our daughters were born, they both had tonsils.  This was not due to a miracle.  This was due to the fact that surgery does not alter one’s DNA.  

One final point:  If you knew as much about evolution as you claim to know, you would know the difference between microevolution and macroevolution.  No one with any sense disbelieves in microevolution.  A great many of us, however, don’t believe in macroevolution.  To illustrate the point, let me return to a young Earl in junior high.  At this time in his life, he was well on his way to becoming an agnostic.  But as he read about mutations in fruit flies, his reaction was “What’s the big deal about these mutations?  They’re still fruit flies!”  The mutating bacteria studied by the CDC are still bacteria.
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Re: Study: Kids Bullied in Gym, Sports Avoid Future Activity

Post by Fitman's Brother on Wed Jul 23, 2014 6:25 am

Mrs. Earl

Not many people know that all babies really are born with tails. That conspiracy was proven to be true when Dr. Toboggan, MD blew the whistle and had the relevant documents to prove it

Thanks for bringing this up again and shining light on this very serious issue though. Not enough people are away!
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Re: Study: Kids Bullied in Gym, Sports Avoid Future Activity

Post by Earl on Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:11 pm


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"You beat a woman and drag her down a flight of stairs, pulling her hair out by the roots? You're the fourth guy taken in the NFL draft. You kill people while driving drunk? That guy's welcome. Players caught in hotel rooms with illegal drugs and prostitutes? We know they're welcome. Players accused of rape and pay the woman to go away? You lie to police, trying to cover up a murder? We're comfortable with that.  You love another man? Well, now you've gone too far!" -- Dale Hansen, Dallas sports anchor for ABC local affiliate WFAA
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Re: Study: Kids Bullied in Gym, Sports Avoid Future Activity

Post by Mrs. Earl on Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:15 pm

Fitman's Brother wrote:Mrs. Earl

Not many people know that all babies really are born with tails. That conspiracy was proven to be true when Dr. Toboggan, MD blew the whistle and had the relevant documents to prove it

Thanks for bringing this up again and shining light on this very serious issue though. Not enough people are away!



Well, you've put it on the Internet; so, it must be true!   Smile  
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Re: Study: Kids Bullied in Gym, Sports Avoid Future Activity

Post by Big Fat Heretic on Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:38 am

Good evening Earl and Mrs. Earl:

OK, I'm going to respond to each comment in
blue text.

This is going to be rather long, so please bear with me.

Mrs. Earl wrote:I’m sorry I didn’t respond to your post earlier, BFH; but our younger daughter got married this weekend, and things have been kind of hectic around the Earl household for the last few weeks.  I want to thank you for being so civil in your response to my post.  I realize that it is very difficult to keep one’s temper when the topic is as close to one’s heart as science is to yours.

Congratulations on your younger daughter's wedding and marriage! Can I have some wedding cake? Just kidding!

Well, I was rather upset when you said, in one of your previous comments "You may have started reading children's astronomy books in the third grade because you liked the pretty pictures, but Earl started reading high school biology textbooks in the first grade and has never ceased to love science."

Well, I have also read Biology textbooks, at adult level, when I was in the 2ed or 3rd grade, which I would check out from the public library during the summer months when we were home from our family camping trips. I had a Gilbert Microscope & Lab Kit, and I would go out into the woods across the railroad track to collect specimens to examine under my microscope. I wasn't just interested in Astronomy, but I was also interested in Biology, and Geology, and Physics. But, Astronomy was my favorite.

I also had some Remco Science Kits for doing simple experiments in physics. One does have to know about Physics to understand more about Astronomy. Well, being in grade school, I didn't understand the math yet, because one does not learn algebra in grade school.

When I was a kid, I didn't play with balls. I never had a football, or a basketball, or even a baseball. I never wanted those things! In that small town where I lived up in Northern Minnesota, some of the parents in our neighborhood would sometimes ask my mother, "Why can't your boy be more like 'normal' kids"?

That word "normal" has been done to death!!!

Yeah! That dirty little town was like Payton Place, a morally corrupt little town, an isolated community in the north woods region, where an arsonist could get a job as a school teacher (my 5th grade teacher who bashed my head against a brick wall in an argument over an Astronomy book he would not allow me to check out from the school library) and where a child molesting rapist could get a job as a police officer. Yeah! He had beaten and raped a 12 year old girl in St. Cloud, Minnesota, and was kicked off the police force, but he could get a job as a cop in my home town! Really nice! Eh???

That town was an isolated little fiefdom, like something out of a Stephen King novel!

Anyway . . . . .

I also had a steam engine. You put distilled water into the boiler, light the white rectangular fuel pellets, and when the water was heated up to make steam, the red flywheel would start spinning really fast. It was noisy has Hell. I loved my little steam engine.

So, I played with some toys that were considered too dangerous for a kid my age at the time.

At first, naturally, my parents supervised me on that, but after the first day of playing around with it, I was allowed to use it by myself. I even had a Gilbert Erector Set, and I would construct mechanical devices using chains and sprockets, belts and pulleys, and hook it up to my steam engine. I even built a wooden paddle boat for it, and went to a pond to use it. Yeah! I had a lot of cool things when I was a kid.  

When we were living up in Minnesota, my mother went to First Aid classes, and she brought back a dark green textbook on First Aid, and it had many pages of human anatomy. She also had, what we called, The Big Red Book, a medical encyclopedia on human anatomy and human reproduction. When ever we kids had any questions about human reproduction and sex, she would get The Big Red book. Eventually, she just left it laying around so we kids just look at it anytime we felt like it.

OK, back in January of 1965, we had a fire at our house. The house we lived in was over a hundred years old, and something shorted out in the electrical wiring. Fortunately, nobody was in the house. We kids were in school and my parents were out.

So, we lost everything! We lost all of our books, and we kids lost everything we had for Christmas. Fortunately we didn't lose any of our family photo albums. Those survived the fire, because we kept them in a dark blue metal steamer trunk. Aside form that, all we had was the clothes we were wearing.

Of course, we would venture into the house to see if we could salvage anything. In the kitchen we manage to salvage our pots and pans and silverware. And in the living room, there were the three Astronomy books that I had check out from the public library. Somehow, those managed to survive. The covers were darkened, and they smelled smokey, but the pages inside were still readable. So, we did manage to salvage a few things, but everything else was lost in the fire.

We moved into a hotel room above a cafe, then we eventually got a 21 foot long travel trailer, a Trailblazer.

But, we had to park it in the backyard behind our burned up house which was still standing, and had an electrical meter installed on a post, and we used propane gas for heating and cooking. And they had to hook up the sewer pipe to one of the pipes in the house, and our water was also hooked up to the plumbing inside the house.

So, You have to imagine what it was like, having to live in our backyard, and having to look at our chard and burned house, which was still standing. It looked really creepy at night, especially during a full moon!  

We stayed there until April of that year, then we moved down to Truth or Consequence, New Mexico. We were still living in the Trailblazer until we got a 1964 Rembrandt mobile home that was 12 feet wide and 50 feet long. That was when the 12 feet wide mobile homes first came out. And we had to get an evaporative air cooler installed on the roof.

I was 13 years old when we moved down to New Mexico back in April of 1965.    

Anyway . . . to continue . . .


Mrs. Earl wrote:So, you do agree with the findings of the study described in Earl’s OP.  Perhaps this would have been more obvious in your original post if – instead of saying, “Well, actually . . . during the summer months when school was out, I did get my exercise” -- you had said, “There’s a solution to this problem.”  Regardless, your position is now clear.

Thank you!

I guess,  I should have clarified that in one of my previous comments. Yes, I agree entirely with the article that Earl had posted. But, there are some exceptions to almost every rule.

In some ways, my mother was ahead of the times. My stepfather, he was sort of like Archie Bunker, and he would sometimes drive me mad!

When I was a teenager, I was a long-haired hippy. I didn't do drugs, but I had a Beetle style hair cut, and I liked to listen to rock music, and classical. When we moved down to New Mexico, my brother went stomp, and started listening to trashy redneck boo hoo cry in your beer type of country music. He hated everything about me.  

Back in 1969 and the early 1970s during all those Apollo moon missions, my brother was against that!

One time on a news report, it was mentioned that one of the astronauts was feeling nauseous from the zero gravity environment. My brother said that it was the weight of God's finger on them!

When later on, the astronaut was feeling better, I rhetorically said back to my brother "Well . . . guess God decided to lift the weight of his finger off of them!" and he responded with a, "screw You"!!!


Mrs. Earl wrote:I understand why you have the mistaken idea that you know more science than Earl does.  It’s because when you say “science,” you mean astronomy, geology, paleontology, and evolution.  When I say “science,” I mean biology, chemistry, and physics as well as astronomy, geology, etc.  If you are limiting the definition of “science” to astronomy, then you definitely know more than Earl because he has no interest in it.  But if you mean science in the sense that most people mean science, he does know more than you do.

Back in the 1970s from 1975 to 1978 when I was going to NMSU, New Mexico State University, in Las Cruces, I had taken courses in Chemistry, and Physics along with my Astronomy courses. I enjoyed Chemistry, and doing balanced equations. Those are fun! And I have gotten really good at that. The chemical equations are mostly like algebra, and Physic involves a lot of trigonometry.

Because I had only one and a half semesters of high school, when I entered college, I had to take remedial course in algebra review, geometry review, and trigonometry review, to make up for what I should have gotten in high school.

I also had to get a tutor to help me from Student Services.

Since I didn't have a car, I had to go across town on my 10 speed bicycle. I would get up at 6:00 AM in the morning, have a quick breakfast, and pack my books and lunch into a briefcase, strap it to the rack above the back fender, and peddle my bike about 3 miles across town, rain or shine, hot weather or cold weather, and arrive at about 7:00 AM.

I arranged it so I could have my tutoring sessions during my lunch breaks. We met in an unoccupied room at Goddard Hall. The room had tables and a blackboard. Hey! Trigonometry is fun once you know how!      

I made a B+ in those math courses. I would have made an A, but during a test, there was a time limit, and if, for example: a test had 10 equations we had to solve, well . . . sometime I could solve eight or nine of them, and I would get those right. If I could have finished all of them in the allowed time limit, I could have made an A in those tests, otherwise, I did make a B+ in my math courses.

Unfortunately, due to financial difficulty, I was not able to finish getting my degree. But I did have three years of college. I was living in a low-income apartment complex. During my second semester, I bought a motorcycle, a single cylinder Honda XL 100 from a downstairs neighbor for about a hundred dollars.

It was a bad neighborhood. I had to keep my motorcycle out in the parking lot. I lived on the second floor. If I had lived on the first floor, I could have pulled my motorcycle into my living room and parked in on a sheet of plywood so as not to damage the floor tiling. That is what my downstairs neighbor did before I bought it from him.

Then . . . one day, someone had screwed around with my motorcycle. When I pulled out of the parking lot, and onto the street, my breaks failed, and I hit the rear end of a car stopped in front of me. I flipped over the handlebars and landed on my back on the trunk of the car. There was no damage to the car, but my front shock absorbers on my motorcycle were slightly bent. I was crippled up in pain and was unable to attend classes for three weeks. There were no broken bones, but I must have pulled every muscle in my body. I was in a hell of a lot of pain for three weeks! I eventually got the front shock absorbers straightened out, but I was warned that those shock absorbers would never be as strong as they once were. I couldn't afford new ones. And, because of that set-back,  I had to do a semester over again.  

Oh! But football players get free Hummers after they have raped someone!

Whoops! there I go being cynical again!


Mrs. Earl wrote:One reason I say this is because you evidently have no idea of what constitutes scientific proof of a theory.  This is illustrated by your so-called “proof” of the evolution of the eye.  You list eyes from several different animals, line them up from simplest to most complex, wave your hands and say, “Thus I have proved that eyes have evolved.” Mathematicians call this the Hand-Wavy Method of proof. When one comes to a step for which one has no proof, one says “Clearly” or “Obviously” and waves one’s hands and hopes that no one notices you made a statement with no supporting evidence. Using your Hand-Wavy Method of proof, I could “prove” that Big Ben in London evolved from my old Cinderella watch I had as a kid.

OK, once again, I feel insulted!!!

First of all, in all the math books I have ever read, I never came across the term "Hand-Wavy Method" of proof!!! Please, tell me the title of the math book, and the name of the author of that book!!!

Oh! How I just love that old clock and watch analogy! And let's not forget my old time favorite one, about a tornado in a junkyard throwing together a 747 jet plane! You forgot to mention that one! Sorry! But that's all been done to death!!!

No offense, but that sounds like something from either Ray Comfort, or Eric Hovind (son of jailbird Kent Hovind) etc. etc. I really don't think that either you or Earl would take their beliefs seriously.

If anything sounds hand-wavy to me, it's the Genesis account of creation, where plants and animals appeared miraculously out of nothing. And I NEVER could believe that, not even when I was 8 or 9 years old in Sunday school. I grew up learning many hard and brutal lessons that there is no such things as miracles!

Well, football players do get their FREE Hummers after they have raped someone. But, that's not a miracle! It's only because American society has decayed down to a state of social and moral entropy, which occurs within a closed system, and that is what American society is becoming. A closed system, from which I have been an outcast!  

First of all, clocks and watches are not living organisms! They don't reproduce, and they don't mutate.

We all have mutations in the genetic code of our DNA! Yes! We are all mutants! Most mutations are neither beneficial or harmful, while some mutations are definitely harmful and some are actually beneficial. Copying errors always occur in our DNA.

True, no one individual evolves into something else. No single chimp suddenly evolved into a human. That's not how it works! It is populations that evolve over time. Another question I have heard over and over again until I'm sick of it, is the old all time favorite "If humans are decedent from apes, then, why are their still apes"? Well, one could just as easily ask, if most Americans are decedent from Europeans, then, why are there still Europeans? And that question would be just as silly as the first one!

So, if humans are decedent of apes, and why are their still apes, it's because, WE ARE STILL APES!

That's right! We humans ARE actually apes, just as lions, tigers, panthers, leopards, etc. etc. are all still cats!

We are primates. Yes! That's right! We are primates!

And the first to classify humans as primates was, Carl Linnaeus (May 23,1707 – January 10, 1778) also known as Carl von Linné, a Swedish botanist, physician, and zoologist, who laid the foundations for the modern biological naming scheme of binomial nomenclature.

It was back in the 1740s when he classified humans as primates, and this was over 100 years before Charles Darwin.

Oh! And by the way, he was a Christian.  

And here's an article about the evolution of the eye.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/library/01/1/l_011_01.html


Evolution of the Eye:

When evolution skeptics want to attack Darwin's theory, they often point to the human eye. How could something so complex, they argue, have developed through random mutations and natural selection, even over millions of years?

If evolution occurs through gradations, the critics say, how could it have created the separate parts of the eye -- the lens, the retina, the pupil, and so forth -- since none of these structures by themselves would make vision possible? In other words, what good is five percent of an eye?

Darwin acknowledged from the start that the eye would be a difficult case for his new theory to explain. Difficult, but not impossible. Scientists have come up with scenarios through which the first eye-like structure, a light-sensitive pigmented spot on the skin, could have gone through changes and complexities to form the human eye, with its many parts and astounding abilities.

Through natural selection, different types of eyes have emerged in evolutionary history -- and the human eye isn't even the best one, from some standpoints. Because blood vessels run across the surface of the retina instead of beneath it, it's easy for the vessels to proliferate or leak and impair vision. So, the evolution theorists say, the anti-evolution argument that life was created by an "intelligent designer" doesn't hold water: If God or some other omnipotent force was responsible for the human eye, it was something of a botched design.

Biologists use the range of less complex light sensitive structures that exist in living species today to hypothesize the various evolutionary stages eyes may have gone through.

Here's how some scientists think some eyes may have evolved: The simple light-sensitive spot on the skin of some ancestral creature gave it some tiny survival advantage, perhaps allowing it to evade a predator. Random changes then created a depression in the light-sensitive patch, a deepening pit that made "vision" a little sharper. At the same time, the pit's opening gradually narrowed, so light entered through a small aperture, like a pinhole camera.

Every change had to confer a survival advantage, no matter how slight. Eventually, the light-sensitive spot evolved into a retina, the layer of cells and pigment at the back of the human eye. Over time a lens formed at the front of the eye. It could have arisen as a double-layered transparent tissue containing increasing amounts of liquid that gave it the convex curvature of the human eye.

In fact, eyes corresponding to every stage in this sequence have been found in existing living species. The existence of this range of less complex light-sensitive structures supports scientists' hypotheses about how complex eyes like ours could evolve. The first animals with anything resembling an eye lived about 550 million years ago. And, according to one scientist's calculations, only 364,000 years would have been needed for a camera-like eye to evolve from a light-sensitive patch.

So, if the human eye was the result of "intelligent design" then God did a rather poor job of "designing" the human eye!

Evolution is not actually a "random" process. Mutations are random, but natural selection is not random.

Small variations (mutations) will occur from one generation to another, and if a mutation gives even a slight advantage, that organism is more likely to produce offspring, and pass that mutation down to the next generation.

All primates except humans have 24 chromosome pairs. Humans only have 23 chromosome pairs.

Now, why is that?

Well . . . for a while, it looked like there was a crises in evolution. But then, the answer was found in chromosome #2.

"Chromosome #2 is one of the 23 pairs of chromosomes in humans. People normally have two copies of this chromosome. Chromosome #2 is the second largest human chromosome, spanning more than 243 million base pairs (the building material of DNA) and representing almost 8% of the total DNA in cells.

Identifying genes on each chromosome is an active area of genetic research. Because researchers use different approaches to predict the number of genes on each chromosome, the estimated number of genes varies. Chromosome #2 likely contains 1,491 genes, including those of the HOXD homeobox gene cluster."



Each chromosome has a Telomere on each end and a Centromere in the middle, except Chromosome #2, which has two Telomeres fused together in the middle and  a Telomere on each end, and two Centromeres.

Human chromosome #2 is widely accepted to be a result of an end-to-end fusion of two ancestral chromosomes.

The correspondence of chromosome #2 to two ape chromosomes. The closest human relative, the chimpanzee, has near-identical DNA sequences to human chromosome #2, but they are found in two separate chromosomes. The same is true of the more distant gorilla and orangutan.

The presence of a vestigial centromere. Normally a chromosome has just one centromere, but in chromosome 2 there are remnants of a second centromere. The presence of vestigial telomeres. These are normally found only at the ends of a chromosome, but in chromosome #2 there are additional telomere sequences in the middle.

Chromosome 2 presents very strong evidence in favor of the common descent of humans and other apes. According to researcher J. W. IJdo, "We conclude that the locus cloned in cosmids c8.1 and c29B is the relic of an ancient telomere-telomere fusion and marks the point at which two ancestral ape chromosomes fused to give rise to human chromosome #2"


This was from a Wikipedia article at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromosome_2_%28human%29

So, this is not from "waving" my hand!!!

Also, as for the "gaps" in the fossil record, many transitional fossils have been discovered, and the "gaps" are closing. For example: the discovery of Tiktaalik, a transitional from, from fish to amphibian!

Another article from Wikipedia;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiktaalik

"Tiktaalik is a monospecific genus of extinct sarcopterygian (lobe-finned fish) from the late Devonian period, with many features akin to those of tetrapods (four-legged animals). The Tiktaalik is understood as representative of the evolutionary transition from fish to amphibians. It is an example from several lines of ancient sarcopterygian fish developing adaptations to the oxygen-poor shallow-water habitats of its time, which led to the evolution of tetrapods. The Tiktaalik and animals similar to the Tiktaalik are understood to be the common ancestors of a wide swathe of all terrestrial fauna: amphibians, reptiles, birds, and mammals. Well-preserved fossils were found in 2004 on Ellesmere Island in Nunavut, Canada."

Yeah! This was recently discovered back in 2004.

Over a hundred and fifty years ago, the number of primate fossils found could only cover a pool table.

Now you need a whole swimming pool!!!

So, the gaps are closing!

Yeah! Hand waving???

I'm sorry, but I feel insulted again!

Anyway . . . to continue . . .


Mrs. Earl wrote:Another way in which you show a lack of knowledge of scientific method is your insistence that one or two examples constitute a case study.  For example, you frequently refer to the ridiculous things your Sunday school teacher said and then conclude that all Bible believers are as ignorant as she was.  If I used your reasoning, I would cite the example of my daughter’s biology professor.  He has more than one degree in science, he is an atheist, and he believes firmly in the theory of evolution. He also believes that all human babies are born with tails.  Apparently, these tails are surgically removed by the doctors before the parents can see their babies because these doctors are all part of a giant worldwide conspiracy.  Using your method of reasoning, I would conclude that all atheists with degrees in science who believe in evolution are ridiculous ignorant yahoos.


OK, when I had mentioned in one of my previous comments about my Sunday school teacher saying that boys and men all had a rib missing on on side, and upon seeing my chest X-ray, and saying to my doctor "Hey! My Sunday school teacher lied to me! I don't have one rib missing! I have the same number of ribs on both sides!" that was only a rhetorical comment. I actually knew, even before I saw my own chest X-ray, that I had the same number of ribs on both side.

I guess my mistake was in not clarifying that! But yeah! That was only a rhetorical comment, and of course, my doctor and I both had a good laugh after I made my rhetorical comment. I knew my Sunday teacher was a liar by the town clock before I even went to the doctor to get my chest X-ray! OK???

Now, as for some teacher saying that all babies are born with tails, well . . . that's one I never heard before! That's a new one on me! Yeah! That's one for the books!

OK, on some very very rare occasions, human babies have been born with a short tail. It does happen. It's a mutation. I once knew a kid who had 6 fingers and 6 toes! It does happen.

Our DNA actually dose contain genetic information for growing a tail, but those instructions have been over-written by newer genetic information. But sometimes copying errors do occur in the DNA molecule. That's why some people are born with deformities, some minor, and some very serious, and even fatal.

Well, I had a mild mutation myself, the bone spur under my left arm (that I had mentioned previously) called an "exostosis" which was pinching a nerve, causing my left hand to feel all tingly, which I had to have surgically removed back when I was 9 years old.  

OK, maybe that teacher was only making a silly rhetorical comment to keep his students on their toes! I seriously doubt that he actually believed what he was saying!

I don't know, I could be wrong.

But, my Sunday school teacher actually believed that all males had a rib missing on one side!


Mrs. Earl wrote:By the way, your contention that the fact that you and every other male on earth has twelve ribs somehow disproves the story of Adam and Eve also illustrates your ignorance of science.  When Earl was a child, his tonsils were surgically removed; but when both of our daughters were born, they both had tonsils. This was not due to a miracle.  This was due to the fact that surgery does not alter one’s DNA.

Now, I'm being insulted again!

Even if the story of Adam and Eve was true (which I seriously doubt) and Adam had a rib removed, I knew that it would NOT result in every male child born thereafter having a missing rib! I know that surgery does not alter one's DNA. But apparently, my Sunday school did not know this!

My Sunday school teacher actually believed what she was saying!

Naturally, of course, if you have your tonsils removed, your kids are NOT going to be born without tonsils! I know that!

But, my Sunday school teacher actually believed that because Adam had one of his ribs removed, that all males born thereafter would be missing a rib!

And I was told that I was going to go to Hell if I didn't believe her fairy tale!!!

Actually, there's a lot of things that disprove the Genesis account of Adam and Eve, and not just the number of ribs.

Human DNA has been traced back to a common male ancestor who lived about 60,000 years ago. NOT 6,000, but 60,000 years, and mitochondria DNA has been trace back to common female ancestor who lived about 120,000 years ago.

So, it's not Adam and Eve, but rather, Eve and Adam, rhetorically speaking.

Also, about 60,000 years ago, we humans were actually on the verge of becoming extinct. This was toward the end of the last Ice Age.

And there is no geological proof of the Genesis flood. Also, a large boat the size of Noah's Ark is physically impossible. The largest wooden ship ever built was the Wyoming and it was about 150 feet shorter than the mythical Noah's Ark.

The Wyoming was re-enforced with 90 diagonal steel beams, and it leaked continuously, and it had to use steam pumps to pump water out from the hull. Eventually the Wyoming broke up and sank with all hands on board.


Mrs. Earl wrote:One final point: If you knew as much about evolution as you claim to know, you would know the difference between microevolution and macroevolution. No one with any sense disbelieves in microevolution.  A great many of us, however, don’t believe in macroevolution.  To illustrate the point, let me return to a young Earl in junior high.  At this time in his life, he was well on his way to becoming an agnostic.  But as he read about mutations in fruit flies, his reaction was “What’s the big deal about these mutations?  They’re still fruit flies!” The mutating bacteria studied by the CDC are still bacteria.

Actually, Macro Evolution is a whole lot of Micro Evolution. Many many small changes eventually add up to big changes, given enough time.

To say you accept Micro Evolution, but not Macro Evolution, is like saying that one can walk 10 feet, but you can not walk a mile.

Anyway . . . earlier I had mention the transition from fish to amphibian. Oh! And birds are decedent of dinosaurs.

Archaeopteryx, sometimes referred to by its German name Urvogel, is a genus of early bird that is transitional between feathered dinosaurs and modern birds.



This was a transitional form between reptile and bird. It had the bones typical of reptiles and it had teeth, but it also had feathers. No, it was not just a bird, but, a transitional form between reptile and bird.

Also, small multi-cellular organisms evolved into larger organisms during the Precambrian era about 500 million years ago.

No, I can not accept the story of creation in the Genesis account! I'm sorry!

Even as a kid, only 8 or 9 years old, I could not believe that plants and animals just miraculously appeared POOF out of nothing!

And I can't believe that the earth is only 6000 years old.

I'm inclined to take the word of a professional geologist and paleontologist, who goes out doing geological surveys, digging for rock samples and fossils, and getting their hands dirty out in the hot desert heat, and the professional astronomers, working in a cold unheated observatory dome, freezing their asses off.

No, you can't heat the inside of the dome. Whatever temperature it is outside, it has to be the same inside.

So, I'm not going to take the word of some multi-millionaire television evangelist, thumping his Bible and pounding his pulpit while preaching in his multi-million dollar mega-church, sitting in a nice comfortable office, and riding around in his limousine, and flying around in his Lear jet, and getting all kinds of tax exemptions, and bribing politicians to take away more of our civil liberties in the process.

I really don't care what people believe. You all can believe anything you like.

I just don't want anyone to impose their beliefs on me!  

You say I'm ignorant of the scientific method???

OK, a "theory" in science is based of observations and facts.

First, one makes observations, or does experiments, and them, proposes a hypothesis to account for the observation. The experiment must be repeatable, and have predictable results.

After it's been tested many times, than you have a workable theory.

Also, any hypothesis or theories you have, must be subject to peer review, and really strict scrutiny, and must be repeatable by others, before it can be published in a peer reviewed journal, which eventually gets published into the text books.

So, scientific "theories" are passed by strict peer review, and NOT by legislation!!!  

Oh! But the Creationists, NNNNNNNOOOOOOOOO, they want their beliefs to be inserted into public school science textbooks. They want to bypass the peer review process, and appeal directly to the politicians for legislation to have it taught.

Sorry! But that's NOT how it's done.

Evolution was NOT put into our textbooks by legislation, but by peer review before it could be written up in science journals, and eventually into our textbooks.

Oh! I have a question?

In the geological column, the fossil record shows, as you go deeper, the rock layer are older, according to radiometric  dating. The fossil remains of organisms are more primitive in the deeper layers, while in the upper younger rock layers, the fossil remains are of more advanced organisms.

We have plant and animal species that exist now, that did NOT exist millions and millions of years ago.

For example: You are NEVER going to find bunny rabbit fossils in the Precambrian rock layers.

Also, you will NEVER find primate fossils in the same rock layers were dinosaur fossils are found. Humans and dinosaurs NEVER existed in the same geological time period.

Yet, many creationists believe that Noah had baby dinosaurs aboard his ark!

I don't care what people like Ray Comfort, or Ken Ham, or Eric Hovind (Son of jailbird, Kent Hovind) have to say about it!!! They're all liars by the town clock! As far as I'm concerned, they're all child molesters! NO! I don't mean sexually, like pedophiles, but rather, they screw with the minds of young children, trying to brain-wash kids before they are old enough to start thinking for themselves. And that is child abuse!!!

Also, Kent Hovind is in prison for TAX EVASION, and NOT because he's being persecuted for his religious beliefs. He's due to get out sometime in 2015 after serving 10 years.

Oh! And you should see the federal penitentiary in which Kent Hovind is presently residing! IT IS BEAUTIFUL!!!



Yeah! Nice jail!!! Eh?

OK, getting off topic for a moment . . . . .

Recently, a black teenage girl in a Florida high school was charged with "domestic terrorism" because of something that went wrong during a SCIENCE EXPERIMENT!!!

She had an 8 ounce water bottle, and she put some household chemicals into it, and screwed on the cap. She did her little experiment outdoors is a park across the street from her school sometime before classes were starting. Well, something went wrong, and the cork blew off with a loud POP!

I use to do stuff like that at home when I was a kid.

Anyway . . . she was charged with domestic terrorism, and was facing a possible two years in a federal penitentiary, if found guilty.

But, her science teacher spoke out in her defense, saying that she is one of his best and brightest students, a straight A student, however, she was facing possible prison time, just because a cork went POP!!!

Also, she was also expelled from school!

Well . . . a petition was circulated online, and over 200,000 people signed the petition to have the charges dropped. I was one of the signers of that petition!!!

I'm always signing petitions online, and donating an average of $30 per month supporting my Democratic candidates.

Anyway . . . the charges were eventually dropped. But the last I have heard, she is still not allowed to return back to here school.

Oh! But there is some good NEWS! People donated money so she could spend the summer in a SCIENCE CAMP!!!

Well . . . when I was a kid, as I had mentioned earlier . . . I had a REMCO science kit. It included a red plastic rocket that you fill with baking soda and distilled vinegar. You mount it to the red octagonal launching pad, shake it up, and set it down, and walk away. It would take off rising into the air about 200 feet. I loved my little red rocket! I would take it to school with me, and play with it out in the field during recess. One day, it exploded on the launching pad with a loud crack, and one of my lowers legs was cut by a piece of red plastic shrapnel. It hurt like Hell, but I was more upset about losing my little red rocket. I didn't have that anymore.

This was back in the early 1960s. If I had been a kid going to school today, I probably would have been charged with domestic terrorism, and facing a possible two year prison sentence!  

See how far America has advanced since we stopped putting astronauts on the moon!!!

And of course, we poor people usually end up is some crappy dump running the risk of getting beaten and raped!

Oh! But Creationists, like Kent Hovind, they get to go to nice comfortable luxury prisons!!!  

Now, getting back on topic again . . . . .

. . . the subject of evolution . . . . .

Anyway . . . . .

The plant and animal species that exist at the present time are far out-numbered by the many plant and animal species that became extinct. About 90 percent of all species that have ever existed on this planet, became extinct, during many different geological periods, to be replaced by newer species in later geologic time periods.

So, my question is . . . . . how did newer species of plants and animals appear on this planet as the older species were becoming extinct???

Did the newer species just magically POOF into existence out of nothing as the older species became extinct?

OK, that was two questions instead of one.

It only makes sense that new species evolved from the older species.

I suggest you look up some science articles on how speciation occurs, how a particular species can branch off into two or more different species.

Well, I think I have said enough for now.

Editing this topic has left me feeling really depressed . . .

Oh! By the way . . . . . I now have a rather interesting project going right now.

You all remember, in some other topics, I had mentioned that I have a friend who has duel citizenship in both the USA and Israel, and that he served seven years in the Israeli Army, and he is now a case worker in our local VA Hospital, counseling the Iraq war veterans.

Well, between the two of us, we have a project going.

We're going to take somebody down who has been practicing medicine without a license. This guy is not a licensed clinical psychologist.

His name is Malcolm Bowden, and he is a Christian Fundamentalist, and a GEOCENTRIST!!!

Yeah! This idiot believes that the earth is at the center of the universe, and that everything revolves around the earth.

But, that's not why we want to take this guy down.

He's free to believe any damn thing he wishes. He could believe that the moon is made of cheese for all I care.

But, he has been making medical claims, saying the mental illness, and depression, is caused by selfishness and narcissism, and his therapy is based on his religious beliefs that have no bases in scientific fact.

It is no different than saying that diseases are caused by demons and not by germs or viruses.

Malcolm Bowden is a QUACK!!!

And he could do a lot of harm!

He lives in England, and I'm sure that the UK has a medical board that ought to be informed.

Yeah! It would be amusing to hear Malcolm Bowden telling American war veterans who fought in Iraq, that their severe depression and mental illness is cause by being selfish and narcissistic!

He would probably get his teeth shoved down his throat, and get kicked in the balls!

Well . . . as much fun as that might be, instead . . . we are going to see if we can legally take this guy down.

Then, he can preach his Geocentrisim in prison.

Being in prison can be very depressing. So, I'm sure the inmates will get a much needed good laugh from him!    

But somehow, some way, this idiot is going to go down!!!

Anyway . . . . .

Now, excuse me, while I to respond to Fitman's Brother

========================================
.

Fitman's Brother wrote:Mrs. Earl

Not many people know that all babies really are born with tails. That conspiracy was proven to be true when Dr. Toboggan, MD blew the whistle and had the relevant documents to prove it

Thanks for bringing this up again and shining light on this very serious issue though. Not enough people are away!

Away? Or do you mean, aware?

Go back to grade school and learn some more grammar.  

I did a Google search on your Dr. Toboggan MD. He sounds like a ski instructor!

Go sleep under a bridge, you moronic troll!
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Re: Study: Kids Bullied in Gym, Sports Avoid Future Activity

Post by Mrs. Earl on Tue Jul 29, 2014 4:28 am

Sorry, you’re too late.  The cake’s all gone.  Would you like some ice cream, though?  Anyway, thanks for the congratulations!  Smile

Whew!  Well, I certainly feel like I know more of your life history, BFH.  And that was some review of biology you gave, too.  But I’m not sure what most of it has to do with the points I made.  I will try, however, to respond to the parts of it that are concerned with my points.

First, though, I would like to apologize to you for implying that all you read in the third grade were children’s astronomy books.  Thanks to Ray, there’s no way to check this; but I was sure that in the old forum you had stated that your love affair with astronomy began when you found a children’s book on the subject in the third grade.  Since you assure me that you were reading high-school books on astronomy, I will take your word for it.  It looks like both you and Earl were interested in certain aspects of science at an early age.

I learned the term “hand wavy” from a mathematician, not a textbook.  So, I can’t name a textbook for you to read about the term.  If you go to the Math Department of any university, the mathematicians there will tell you that “hand wavy” is a term.  However, since that might be hard for you to do on your JAZZY scooter, I’ve asked Earl to provide a link to a website where you can read about the term.  Evidently, it’s a term used in many fields; but I tend to notice the mathematical usage because math is my field.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hand-waving

You spent a great deal of time talking about the evolution of the eye, but you evidently didn’t notice that one of your articles supported my claim.  


The Wikipedia article wrote:Scientists have come up with scenarios through which the first eye-like structure, a light-sensitive pigmented spot on the skin, could have gone through changes and complexities to form the human eye, with its many parts and astounding abilities.  .  .  .

Biologists use the range of less complex light sensitive structures that exist in living species today to hypothesize the various evolutionary stages eyes may have gone through.


A scenario is not a proof.  A hypothesis is not a proof.  You know this.


You wrote:First, one makes observations, or does experiments, and them, proposes a hypothesis to account for the observation. The experiment must be repeatable, and have predictable results.

After it's been tested many times, than you have a workable theory.


To merely say, “Over the course of time, X evolved into Y and then later Y evolved into Z,” is hand waviness at its finest because it provides no experimental or observable data to back it up.  For the record, I would just like to point out that to make the argument “I don’t see why God would have done it this way; therefore, God didn’t do it,” is one of the most arrogant, childish and ridiculous assertions I have ever come across.  Who made you the arbitor of all wisdom?

By the way, when I talked about using your method to prove that Big Ben evolved from my Cinderella watch, I never once thought about that old chestnut about a factory exploding and a watch appearing.  I was not talking about whether or not evolution is probable.  I was talking about the fact that you make statements and present no data to prove those statements.

When talking about microevolution and macroevolution,

You wrote:Actually, Macro Evolution is a whole lot of Micro Evolution. Many many small changes eventually add up to big changes, given enough time.

To say you accept Micro Evolution, but not Macro Evolution, is like saying that one can walk 10 feet, but you can not walk a mile.
 

Microevolution takes place within a species.  Macroevolution changes one species into another species.  So, to say that a series of microevolutions becomes a macroevolution is not tantamount to saying, “If I can walk ten feet, I can walk a mile,” but is like saying, “If I can walk ten feet often enough, then I can fly.”

One final thing:  You completely missed the point I was making about my daughter’s college biology professor.  He sincerely believed that all human babies are born with tails.  (That wasn’t the only crazy thing he believed, by the way.)  The fact that he believed this crazy thing doesn’t prove the Bible right and evolution wrong anymore than the fact that your Sunday school teacher sincerely believed that men have only eleven ribs proves the Bible is wrong and evolution is right.  One person doesn’t prove anything.  No matter how sincere his beliefs are.
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Re: Study: Kids Bullied in Gym, Sports Avoid Future Activity

Post by Earl on Sun Apr 26, 2015 9:43 pm

I've been thinking about this particular topic of mine for several days lately.  If posted comments in other P.E.-related forums are any indication, even today many people still believe that mandatory P.E. has always encouraged school students to become physically active, which is a complete lie perpetrated by the school sports crowd.  Few seem to show any interest in reforms that would actually promote fitness for all students.  I certainly don't mean to sound arrogant, but I probably have more insight about this issue than even any former member of Ray's old forum since I went through the experience of traditional sports-centric P.E. in my youth and have continued to undergo the experience of working with a personal trainer in my late middle age.   Because I've gone through both experiences in my life, I'm all the more opposed to traditional P.E. being required of nonathletic students; and with the exception of individual reformers and innovators, I have absolutely no respect for the phys ed establishment in this country.  If the mandatory phys ed of my youth (which was truly one of the biggest frauds I've ever witnessed in my life) had actually promoted physical fitness, I would have benefited from it immensely and would be a big supporter of it today instead of an unrelenting critic.

Now that's all been said, I address the following comment to Big Fat Heretic:  As I've glanced over the posts you submitted in this topic, I must say you did quite a job of hijacking my topic.  You rejected the study that was made and jumped to the issue of "What I Did on My Summer Vacations" and from that point to creationist controversies -- which, I must say, is quite a departure from the issue of bullying in school sports and mandatory P.E.  Ironically enough, you succeeded in doing what some abusive sports bore like Samdaman  Mad would have tried to do.  I now wish that when you had started doing that, I had said Get out of my thread!  Just because something was supposedly true for you doesn't make it true for virtually everyone else.  You seem to think certain problems in our society (especially in the realm of education) began with you as if the universe revolves around you.  Well, it doesn't.  Have I ever disrupted or hijacked any of your threads? How would you feel if I hijacked one of your topics as you did to this one, which concerns an issue that is very important to me -- not to mention also being quite relevant to Skul's forum (unlike political and religious issues)? No, I don't think you'd like it one bit.  Come on, BFH, you can do better.

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Re: Study: Kids Bullied in Gym, Sports Avoid Future Activity

Post by Big Fat Heretic on Mon Apr 27, 2015 12:11 am

Good evening Earl:

OK, I got something I need to say here, God damn it!!!

In America today, we have TWO MAJOR PROBLEMS!!!

Mandatory sports centered PE, and helicopter parenting!

Recently, I read an article in AlterNet that some parents had allowed their kids, about age 8 to walk a few blocks away from home to go to a public playground. The two kids were picked up by the police, and taken back home.

OK, the two parents are scientists, and they believe in raising FREE RANGE children.

But, some nosy busy-body in the neighborhood call the cops upon seeing two kids, walking a few blocks to a park.

So, I guess kids should just stay at home, and just bounce a basketball in the backyard! Right???

WRONG!!!

OK, I know this is a bit off topic, but allow me to continue, God damn it!!!

When I was about 8 or 9 years old, living up in northern Minnesota, my mother raised me as a FREE RANGE child. Of course, the terms "free range children" vs "helicopter parenting" those terms weren't invented yet. But, you get the picture. Right?

I would get on my bicycle, and peddle as far at 10 miles away from home and back. I rode my bike through Jay Cooke State Park and back, and peddled to Cloquet, about 7 miles north of Carlton, and back.

But now, a kid would get picked up by the cops and taken back home. Now, kids can't walk to an open playground without parental supervision, to fly a kite. For example: when I wanted to fly my kite, I could not do it at home, because there were too may overhead telephone wires. So, I would walk to the park with an open field to fly my kite.

But, kids can't do that anymore in some states, or in some towns, or whatever. They have to have their helicopter Mommies or Helicopter Daddies hovering over them to supervise them, and if the parents are too busy, then too bad! You'll just have to stay in your own back yard and bounce a basketball or something.

When my mother was sick with asthma, and she needed a refill on a prescription, she would send me to the pharmacy to pick up her medicine. I had to ride my bike about 5 blocks to get to the pharmacy.

But no! Now kids can't do that anymore!

So, are you sick, but you're not allowed to send your kid out to pick up a prescription from the pharmacy???

Then, you just need to get down on your knees and pray to JEEEEEZZZUUUSSSSSSS!!! Amen!

Oh! By the way . . . . . I think that all city curfew laws should be repealed.

Again, for example: When I was a kid living up in Minnesota, one night there was a total lunar eclipse. But there were too may trees around in my neighborhood blocking the view of the moon. So, I grabbed my binoculars, and walked to the park with an open field where I could observe the moon, and I was out way past curfew hours.

Of course, I'm happy to say, there was NO PO PO around that night. Probably because our town's only cop was too busy fondling another 12 year old girl, or something!

OK, I'm just being cynical again! I really don't know why there was no PO PO that night.

Yeah! our town's only cop was kicked off the police force in St. Cloud after he had beaten and raped a 12 year old girl. But, he could get a job as a cop in that corrupted little fiefdom!

Anyway . . . . .

As I was saying, we have two major problems, that being, mandatory sports centered PE, and helicopter parenting!



Yeah! Another reason why the quality of education here in America has been swirling down the crapper, and why we have become the laughing stock of the rest of the world.

I rest my case!
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Re: Study: Kids Bullied in Gym, Sports Avoid Future Activity

Post by Weltall on Mon Apr 27, 2015 6:03 pm

Thread is about Mandatory P.E. and your reply is:
RED = YOUR AGENDA
BLUE = EARLS TOPIC


Big Fat Heretic wrote:Good evening Earl:

OK, I got something I need to say here, God damn it!!!

In America today, we have TWO MAJOR PROBLEMS!!!

Mandatory sports centered PE, and helicopter parenting!

Recently, I read an article in AlterNet that some parents had allowed their kids, about age 8 to walk a few blocks away from home to go to a public playground. The two kids were picked up by the police, and taken back home.

OK, the two parents are scientists, and they believe in raising FREE RANGE children.

But, some nosy busy-body in the neighborhood call the cops upon seeing two kids, walking a few blocks to a park.

So, I guess kids should just stay at home, and just bounce a basketball in the backyard! Right???

WRONG!!!

OK, I know this is a bit off topic, but allow me to continue, God damn it!!!

When I was about 8 or 9 years old, living up in northern Minnesota, my mother raised me as a FREE RANGE child. Of course, the terms "free range children" vs "helicopter parenting" those terms weren't invented yet. But, you get the picture. Right?
I would get on my bicycle, and peddle as far at 10 miles away from home and back. I rode my bike through Jay Cooke State Park and back, and peddled to Cloquet, about 7 miles north of Carlton, and back.
But now, a kid would get picked up by the cops and taken back home. Now, kids can't walk to an open playground without parental supervision, to fly a kite. For example: when I wanted to fly my kite, I could not do it at home, because there were too may overhead telephone wires. So, I would walk to the park with an open field to fly my kite.
But, kids can't do that anymore in some states, or in some towns, or whatever. They have to have their helicopter Mommies or Helicopter Daddies hovering over them to supervise them, and if the parents are too busy, then too bad! You'll just have to stay in your own back yard and bounce a basketball or something.

When my mother was sick with asthma, and she needed a refill on a prescription, she would send me to the pharmacy to pick up her medicine. I had to ride my bike about 5 blocks to get to the pharmacy.
But no! Now kids can't do that anymore!
So, are you sick, but you're not allowed to send your kid out to pick up a prescription from the pharmacy???
Then, you just need to get down on your knees and pray to JEEEEEZZZUUUSSSSSSS!!! Amen!

Oh! By the way . . . . . I think that all city curfew laws should be repealed.
Again, for example: When I was a kid living up in Minnesota, one night there was a total lunar eclipse. But there were too may trees around in my neighborhood blocking the view of the moon. So, I grabbed my binoculars, and walked to the park with an open field where I could observe the moon, and I was out way past curfew hours.

Of course, I'm happy to say, there was NO PO PO around that night. Probably because our town's only cop was too busy fondling another 12 year old girl, or something!

OK, I'm just being cynical again! I really don't know why there was no PO PO that night.
Yeah! our town's only cop was kicked off the police force in St. Cloud after he had beaten and raped a 12 year old girl. But, he could get a job as a cop in that corrupted little fiefdom!
Anyway . . . . .
As I was saying, we have two major problems, that being,
mandatory sports centered PE, and helicopter parenting!
Yeah! Another reason why the quality of education here in America has been swirling down the crapper, and why we have become the laughing stock of the rest of the world.

I rest my case!

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Re: Study: Kids Bullied in Gym, Sports Avoid Future Activity

Post by Big Fat Heretic on Mon Apr 27, 2015 7:03 pm

Weltall wrote:Thread is about Mandatory P.E. and your reply is:
RED = YOUR AGENDA
BLUE = EARLS TOPIC

Yeah! I have an agenda . . . TO SPEAK OUT FOR THE TRUTH AND FOR ACADEMIC FREEDOM AND FOR INDIVIDUALITY, ESPECIALLY MY OWN INDIVIDUALITY!!!

OK, I know that when Earl started this topic, it was about how kids tend to avoid any and all future physical activities after having been bullied in PE and the school gym.

But, there are exceptions to just about any rule.

We are NOT all alike. We don't all think and act alike given the very same circumstances.

During the summer months, when school was out, I didn't just sit in my room twiddling my thumbs because I felt too discouraged from doing any physical activities.

No, instead, during the summer months, I found great pleasure in doing other physical activities, riding my bicycle, hiking in the woods, going on camping trips, hiking on the nature trails, swimming, rowing a boat, etc. etc. etc. activities where I could explore and move about as I felt like it, without my every motion and actions being directed by a some sort of coach, and just doing the same repetitive activities over and over again and again.

To me, a football player, or a basketball player is just a moronic sock-puppet with the coach's hand up his ass, and directing his every move on the playing field.

I preferred going out and exploring, sometime moving at random, without having my every move being dictated to me.

So, I was being very much on topic, as I do acknowledge, that while a lot of kids are discouraged from doing any other physical activities after having been bullied in the gym, I also wanted to point out some of the exceptions to the rule.

Oh! But I get it now!

My stating that some of us are the exception to the rule, that going off topic.

OK, I get back on topic again!

WHAAA WHAAA WHAAA! POOR ME! BECAUSE I WAS BULLIED IN THE GYM, I DON'T WANT TO GO OUT AND RIDE MY BIKE! I DON'T WANT TO FLY A KITE IN THE PARK! I DON'T WANT TO HIKE IN THE WOODS OR GO ROCK CLIMBING! I DON'T WANT TO GO SWIMMING AND I DON'T WANT TO ROW A BOAT! WHAAA! WHAAA! WHAAA! POOR ME! I JUST WANT TO STAY IN MY ROOM WHERE IT'S SAFE AND JUST TWIDDLE MY THUMBS!

There! How's that? Am I being back on topic now? Is this much better?

No, I reiterate . . . . . getting bullied in the school gym did not discourage me from pursuing other physical outdoor activities during the long summer months.

Also . . . getting my head bashed against a brick wall, by a sports-obsessed teacher, in an argument over an Astronomy book that he would not allow me to check out from the school library, that did not discourage me from reading books anymore. In fact, it made me even more rebellious and even more determined to read even more books from the public library when school was out.

Anyway . . . . .

GO FUCK YOURSELF!!!

Like, who appointed you the forum nanny?

Look here Mary Poppins!

Why don't you just take your spoon full of sugar and your God damn umbrella and shove BOTH up your ass!!!

OK???
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Re: Study: Kids Bullied in Gym, Sports Avoid Future Activity

Post by Weltall on Mon Apr 27, 2015 8:05 pm

Big Fat Heretic wrote:
Weltall wrote:Thread is about Mandatory P.E. and your reply is:
RED = YOUR AGENDA
BLUE = EARLS TOPIC

Yeah! I have an agenda . . . TO SPEAK OUT FOR THE TRUTH AND FOR ACADEMIC FREEDOM!!!

Like, who appointed you the forum nanny?

Look here Mary Poppins!

Why don't you just take your spoon full of sugar and your God damn umbrella and shove BOTH up your ass!!!

OK???

Don't get so pissed when you get called out on your thread hijacking bullcrap.
The first thing Earl said was about you hijacking his thread, and you reply with another issue not related to the topic. you already made a topic concerning your Helicopter and Free range parenting. Why do you need to inject it to this thread even though Earl asked you not to?
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Re: Study: Kids Bullied in Gym, Sports Avoid Future Activity

Post by Big Fat Heretic on Mon Apr 27, 2015 8:48 pm

Weltall wrote:
Big Fat Heretic wrote:
Weltall wrote:Thread is about Mandatory P.E. and your reply is:
RED = YOUR AGENDA
BLUE = EARLS TOPIC

Yeah! I have an agenda . . . TO SPEAK OUT FOR THE TRUTH AND FOR ACADEMIC FREEDOM!!!

Like, who appointed you the forum nanny?

Look here Mary Poppins!

Why don't you just take your spoon full of sugar and your God damn umbrella and shove BOTH up your ass!!!

OK???

Don't get so pissed when you get called out on your thread hijacking bullcrap.
The first thing Earl said was about you hijacking his thread, and you reply with another issue not related to the topic. you already made a topic concerning your Helicopter and Free range parenting. Why do you need to inject it to this thread even though Earl asked you not to?

Has it ever occurred to you . . . that maybe . . . just maybe . . . the reason why so many kids feel too discouraged to engage in another other physical activities, after having been bullied in the school gym, is that because, these kids are being probably raised by helicopter Mommies and helicopter Daddies, hovering over them and watching their every move? Have you ever thought of that? Can you get that into that shit you're using for a brain?

In my case, I was raised as a free range kid, encouraged to pursue my own activities when school was out, to make up for all the rigid conformity that was being imposed on me by the gym coaches.

We are NOT all alike.

While many kids do feel discouraged from pursuing other physical activities after having been bullied, some kids react in other ways. Some commit suicide, and some might grab a gun, kill a bunch of people, before shooting themselves.

I had a BB gun. So, during the summer, or anytime when I was home from school, I would take my BB gun and go out into the woods, and set up some glass bottles for target practice. I filled the bottles with water and red food coloring, and I pretended that I was shooting the bullies in my town. It was especially neat, during the winter, as the bottles would bleed their red contents onto the snow!

Otherwise, most of the time, during the summer, our family just took vacations out of town.

Probably a good thing we left town during the summer, because if we stayed home, I would have played my own version of baseball, taking a bat or a lead pipe to the pumpkin heads of my neighborhood bullies!

Yeah! Getting bullied in school, especially after the 5th grade, when I got my head bashed against the brick wall, I felt very much encouraged to swing a lead pipe!

The pipe was heavy. So, it was good arm exercise!

I use to keep that pipe attached to my bike when I want out.

Just in case!
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Re: Study: Kids Bullied in Gym, Sports Avoid Future Activity

Post by Mrs. Earl on Tue Apr 28, 2015 3:07 am

Big Fat Heretic, you have told us countless numbers of times that when you were in the 3rd grade, you were reading on a high-school level.  So, what happened to lower your level of comprehension?  This topic is about a scientific study that shows the results of bullying in P.E. on nonathletic children.  You responded with childhood anecdotes about your vacations when you went about vandalizing state and national parks with your geologist’s pickax.  When Earl recently pointed out that this topic is about a scientific study on the effects of bullying on nonathletic children and that you had derailed the topic, you responded with your views on child-rearing techniques.  Are you really so incapable of understanding what Earl has written, or is it that you really are just a self-centered hypocrite?  You prattle on and on about how much you love science and scientific facts and then ignore a scientific study because its results differ from your own personal experiences.

Weltall, since I’m blind, I could not see your red-and-blue response; but Earl described it to me.  That was brilliant!

Big Fat Heretic, your response to Weltall’s original post makes you sound like a 4channer.  As I recall, they, too, talked on and on about being for Truth and Justice while doing their best to disrupt every thread they came across.

And now I imagine you will say that I hurt your feelings.  When I first heard your story in Ray’s old forum back when you were engaged in a shouting match with a 13-year-old child (sportsrocks1234), I cried.  But over the years as I’ve watched you treat everyone with contempt (especially Earl), I cease to care what you think or feel.  You won’t like to hear this, but there are consequences to your actions.  And I’ve begun to believe that most of the bad things that have happened to you in your life are a direct result of your own actions.  One big exception to this would be when you were raped.  No one ever deserves that.
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Re: Study: Kids Bullied in Gym, Sports Avoid Future Activity

Post by Earl on Tue Apr 28, 2015 3:41 am

To all those participating in this thread:  I have little time to post tonight, and I can't stay up anymore because of health reasons.  I probably will have more to say about our little controversy tomorrow.

Weltall, your first post -- you know, the red-and-blue one  Smile -- made me laugh.  You need to post far more often.

Big Fat Heretic, I've only glanced at your first post; but the following comments in your post above caught my attention.


Has it ever occurred to you . . . that maybe . . . just maybe . . . the reason why so many kids feel too discouraged to engage in another other physical activities, after having been bullied in the school gym, is that because, these kids are being probably raised by helicopter Mommies and helicopter Daddies, hovering over them and watching their every move?


That's hogwash.  You're making a broad generalization that in many cases doesn't hold true.  I speak as someone who would be a subject case.  My parents certainly weren't of the "helicopter" variety.  If anything, I received far less guidance and supervision than I should have.  You also don't take into account the fact that some nonathletic boys might have needs that differ from those you had when you were a child, but you don't seem to have much regard for the needs of others when they don't coincide with your own.  The fact remains that you derailed my topic since, according to you, everything said in a forum must conform to your likes and dislikes.


Have you ever thought of that? Can you get that into that shit you're using for a brain?


Once again, you show that your civility is in short supply.  Vulgar expressions never win an argument.


We are NOT all alike.


The problem is that you often don't respect others' differences.  I strongly suspect that you wish everyone were like you.  For example, even though you knew I was committed to a bodybuilding program, you once said I should grow a paunch.  It was like hearing a blackboard being raked by fingernails.

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Re: Study: Kids Bullied in Gym, Sports Avoid Future Activity

Post by Big Fat Heretic on Tue Apr 28, 2015 3:38 pm

Good morning Earl and Mrs. Earl:

I would have posted a response sooner, but yesterday evening I wasn't feeling very well. My left wrist and my hand was hurting and I had to take Aspirin for the pain and lay down for a while. Then I got up in the middle of the night to start typing this response. This took longer than I though it would.  

Anyway . . . . . as you guys know, because I had mentioned this before . . . back in 2001 my ex-room-mate, after having his second stroke, with severe memory loss, and becoming paranoid and delusional, and violent, he attacked me one night with a machete, fracturing my left wrist. It was in an argument over my being on the Internet. He had forgotten about our original agreement, that I could go online anytime after 9:30 PM so that the phones would be free during the day. This was back when we only had dial-up. As a result, I spent three days in the hospital, and my ex-room-mate was hauled off to the slammer.

Oh! The rent and the utilities were in my name!

Anyway . . . this evening my left wrist was hurting. Yes, it was way back in 2001 when my left wrist was fractured by a swinging machete, abut 14 years ago. But sometimes I still get pain in my left wrist and tingling sensations in my hand, and I happen to be left-handed. So, I'm screwed! Sometimes I wake up in the middle of the night with pains in my left wrist. I use to play the guitar, but I can't anymore. I use to do oil paintings, but I can't anymore, because of my crippled up left hand.

So, yeah! That's a couple of activities that I don't do anymore because of the bullying by a machete-swinging psychopath!

Yeah! Just like I was punished for wanting to read an Astronomy book when I was a kid in the 5th grade, one night, on July 8,2001 - I got punished for wanting to be on the Internet, and listening to Art Bell on the radio.

OK, Mrs. Earl, you had said . . . . .


Mrs. Earl wrote:Big Fat Heretic, you have told us countless numbers of times that when you were in the 3rd grade, you were reading on a high-school level.  So, what happened to lower your level of comprehension?  This topic is about a scientific study that shows the results of bullying in P.E. on nonathletic children.  You responded with childhood anecdotes about your vacations when you went about vandalizing state and national parks with your geologist’s pickax.  When Earl recently pointed out that this topic is about a scientific study on the effects of bullying on nonathletic children and that you had derailed the topic, you responded with your views on child-rearing techniques.  Are you really so incapable of understanding what Earl has written, or is it that you really are just a self-centered hypocrite?  You prattle on and on about how much you love science and scientific facts and then ignore a scientific study because its results differ from your own personal experiences.


First of all, I did not "vandalize" any state and national parks with my geologist pick. In Lincoln National Forest, near the Pines camp ground, there was a rock quarry there where we were allowed to go in and look for fossils. I only went into those designated areas were one is allowed to collect rocks. Also, I went to places that were not on any national or state park property. Just stop with your self-righteous accusations of me!!! OK?  

Anyway . . . . .

I understood the article perfectly!

Yes, I have even gone back and read it over again yesterday evening. Yes! I get it!

It basically says, that kids who were bullied in school, tend to avoid future physical activities.

But, the article does not mention, what percentage of kids will become inactive, nor dose it mention any possible exceptions to the rule.

That would be like saying, that all people who live in the southern red states are Republicans and that all people who live in the northern blue states are Democrats, and I know that's not true. It might be mostly Republicans in the red states, and mostly Democrats in the blue states. But you'll find both Democrat and Republican individuals in both the red and blue states.

So, while it's possible that a large percentage of kids who now get bullied in school will tend to avoid physical activities in the future, it does not necessarily follow that this will be true for ALL of them. OK? There are some exceptions.

I merely used my own life as an example, of how I managed to stay physically active, even though I was bullied around in school. It's only that I didn't like any physical activities that involved repetitive motions, like sports, and preferred physical activities where I could move on my own volition, moving about and exploring on my own. I didn't want to just merely sit in my room and just twiddle my thumbs, just because I was bullied in school. No, we left town during the summer to get away from that rotten neighborhood.  

I merely pointed out, that in my case, it was different. Yeah! I was different! Is that a crime? I guess it is!

Oh! But you called me a self-centered hypocrite! What? Just because I pointed out how some things were different in my case? Using my own life experience, as to how things were different for me? That make me a hypocrite???

Well, EXCUUUUUUUUUSE MMMMMMMEEEEEEEEEEEEE, for being an individual, for being different!

If that's a crime, then I plead GUILTY as charged!

Now, what's the penalty? The chair or the chamber?

Oh, wait! Here in Texas, it's lethal injection on the gurney, and with the arms rests extended out to the sides, it looks like a cross! Amen!

OK, getting back to science.

You should know, that science is a self-correcting endeavor. Let me give you and example from Astronomy, which is something that I know best.

Let's say, for example: Cepheid variable stars have been used to calculate the distance to far away galaxies. But, back in the 1930s, there seemed to be something wrong with the measurements. It appeared that our own Milky Way galaxy was about twice the size of the average galaxy, and the Andromeda galaxy was calculated to be about 800,000 light years away.

But, it turns out, that there was something wrong with their "yard stick" because in our galaxy, we have Cepheid variables in both the spiral arms and in the core region, while in the distant galaxies, only the Cepheid variables in their core regions were visible while those in the spiral arms were not.

Astronomers suspected that something was wrong, because the estimated distance to other galaxies and the estimated sizews of the galaxies, based on their estimate for their distance, seemed to indicate that our own Milky Way galaxy was much larger than all the other galaxies. So, something was not right.

Then, one night . . . . .  sometime during World War II, they had a black-out drill in Las Angeles, California, and as seen from from Mount Wilson, where the 100 inch telescope was located, the sky over Las Angeles was much darker than usual, and on that particular night, they were able to see and photograph the Cepheid variables in BOTH the core regions AND spiral arms of the more distant galaxies, and it turns out, there are actually two different classes of Cepheid variables, with one class being much brighter then the other, and so, were designated as Population I and Population II Cepheid variables. So, they made the correction in their "yard stick", and it turned out that our own Milky Way galaxy wasn't an over-sized monster after all, that the Andromeda galaxy turned out to be 2 million light years away instead of the mere 800,000 light years as originally estimated. And so, all the other galaxies turned out to be correspondingly that much further away. That night, the known universe doubled its size in a matter of speaking.

So, science is self correcting!

Science has always been a self correcting endeavor, as more and more new discoveries are made.  

Now . . . . . getting back to the article that Earl had mentioned in the beginning of this topic.

No, I do not reject the scientific findings of the article you had mentioned. But I need more data.

I need to know the percentages. I want to see some charts and graphs.

In Astronomy, we have for example: the Hertzsprung-Russell diagram for the spectral classification of stars, the color index for the temperatures vs the absolute magnitude plotted on a graph. We have the data.  

So, I want to know what percent of kids tend to avoid any future physical activities after having been bullied, and what percentage do continue to be physically active in some way other than sports. Gimme the HR Diagram for that!!!

What percentage continue to do other physical activities other then sports???

Or, are these other things, such as, riding a bicycle, or rowing a boat, or hiking in the forest, etc. etc. etc. are these not also considered physical activities? Or is only sports considered physical activities??? If so, then the data is skewed toward the wrong direction! 

Well . . . . . here's my designation! My HR Diagram! OK?

I guess that those kids who tend to avoid any further physical activities after having been bullied around in school, those are Population I kids, and those of us who are the exception to the rule, we were Population II kids.

OK! OK! I guess that's not a very good designation. Well, either way, both groups deserve equal human rights!

So, we don't all bow down and submit like docile sheep after having been bullied around. Of course, those of us who don't submit, those of us who do fight back to defend ourselves, we usually get deeper into trouble, like for example: during recess one day, we were outside for awhile. Well . . . this one larger kid and I, we got into a fight, and he kicked me in the testicles. I was doubled over in pain, then, after the pain subsided, I got back up on my feet, and then I knocked him down. I was on top of him punching him in the face. This rather large teacher who was field monitor that day, she grabbed me by the collar, choking me all the way to the principal's office. Yeah! I got into trouble just for defending myself. No, I guess I was suppose to be a docile and complaint human punching bag!!!

So, the Population I type of kids just put up with the bullying, and those of us who were Population II kids, we just got deeper into trouble, and sometime we get really pissed off, and then, we go super nova!!!

The bottom line is this . . . . that in my particular case, and perhaps in a few other cases out there, getting bullied around in school and in the gym, that did not stop me from enjoying other activities outside of school and sports.

And getting my head bashed against a brick wall in an argument over an Astronomy book that I was not allowed to read from the school library, that also did not stop me from still wanting to read books!

So, my case was different.

And I'm sure that are a lot of other cases out there that are different from the above scenario.

Oh! But you call me a self-centered hypocrite for being an individual and for being different, and for being among the possible exceptions to the rule.

Well, let me tell you some more about this self-centered hypocrite!!!

This self-centered hypocrite, back in 2001 was taking care of his older room-mate after he had his second stroke, and the thanks he got in return was to be hacked up with a machete!!! Yeah! My left wrist was fractured, and I was struck in the back of my head, suffering more head injuries, as if I'm not crazy enough already!!!

OK, Earl, and Mrs. Earl . . . I know you guys aren't into politics, and you don't vote.

But let me say this. You guys could at the very least sign petitions online for the cause of social justice.

That's what this self-centered hypocrite does! OK?

I have been signing petitions with Amnesty International. Most of our petitions get results, and sometimes not.

OK, you guys listen good, and listen tight!!!

There is a young mother, who has been wrongly accused of smuggling drugs. A friend had told her about a job overseas, and her so-called friend gave her a set of luggage for the trip.

This young mother is innocent, and has been held in prison in Indonesia for the past five years. We have sent over 500,000 petition signatures to their leaders, but to no avail.

She is due to be executed!  

So, this self-centered hypocrite has been staying up late at night, loosing sleep, signing petitions, and making phone calls by day to the offices of our elected officials.

Hey! I'm happy to announce, Tom wheeler of the FCC is supporting Net Neutrality, so, the Internet will continue to be equally accessible to all with no censorship.

More good news!

The upcoming merger between Time Warner and Comcast, that has been defeated!

Now, the only battle remains is to call President Obama out, urging him not support the TPP, Tran Pacific Partnership, which has been referred to as NAFTA on steroids. TPP is even worse than NAFTA which was an economic disaster!

And I have signed hundreds of petitions to bring these killer cops to justice, and signed petitions to get people who were wrongly convicted of crimes they did not commit, to have their sentences repealed.

Also, signing petitions to cancel out student debts, and I support Obama's idea of free college.

Oh! And I also support same-sex marriage, because I don't believe that being gay or lesbian is a sin!

Anyway . . . . .

I have lost a lot of sleep staying up and signing hundreds of petitions ans sending E-mails to my representatives, and I'm very tired, but I keep pushing myself.

Then, my left hand and wrist starts hurting, and then, this big fat machine, in addition to being fueled by food, also runs on Aspirin and Canada Dry Saltzer for the pain. This fat machine also runs on caffeine and nicotine!    

Yeah! I know! This is way way way off topic! I get it! OK?

But, Mrs. Earl, I wanted to show you what this "self-centered hypocrite" does with his time!!!  

Yeah! I guess what makes me self-centered is that I take a secular humanist approach toward civil rights and justice instead of getting down on my fat dimpled knees and praying to JEEEZZZZZUUUSSSSS!!!

Anyway . . . . . excuse me for being different, and for being one of the exceptions to the rule.

Then you go on to say . . . . .


Mrs. Earl wrote:You won’t like to hear this, but there are consequences to your actions.  And I’ve begun to believe that most of the bad things that have happened to you in your life are a direct result of your own actions.


Yeah! You're so right!!!

I confess! I confess!!!

When I was 4 years old, I deliberately leaped out of a 1948 four-door Chrysler so that I could get my left knee busted up on the pavement, so that I would walk with a limp and be able to run like the other kids.

Also, when I was in the 4th grade, I did not climb the rope in the gym, not because I couldn't (crippled up left knee and all) but that I deliberately did not climb the rope, so that I could get suspended from school.

And I deserved to get my head bashed against the brick wall as punishment for wanting to read an Astronomy book from the school library.  

Also, I deserved to get punched in the stomach with a basketball in the gym. I was punched so hard it seemed like forever before I could start breathing again. I'm lucky I didn't get any fractured ribs. Well . . . that's what I deserve for dropping the ball. The ball slipped out of my hands. But, to drop the ball during a game, that blasphemy!

Oh! And guess what! you're really gonna love this one!!!

Just before I was born, I deliberately wrapped the umbilical cord around my neck so that I would come out blue and choking and gasping for air! Yeah! That was a real trip! I got really high from that! I also deliberately came out as a breech birth! Yeah! I'm Satan's child! MMMMMMMUUUUUUUUUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

NO GOD DAMN IT!!!

It was only after I got my head bashed against the brick wall in an argument over an Astronomy book I wasn't allowed to read. All the other kids in my class were allowed to check out any book they wanted, but I was not.

That was when I became angry and rebellious!!!

Oh! I get it now!

Yeah! I'm self-centered alright! How dare I think that I was an equal!!!

No, I'm just an underling! I don't have the same rights as everybody else.

No! I'm just everybody's doggie! BOW WOW! BOW WOW!

You know, if I were black, I would have been dead years ago!

Then you say, that I treated Earl with contempt.

OK, I had talked about right-wing Christian Fundamentalists, like Becky Fischer, Bryan Fischer, Kent Hovind, Aric Hovind, Ken Ham, Ian Juby, etc. etc. etc. and that is an attack on Earl?

No! I only stated facts about them! FACTS! FACTS! FACTS!

Let me guess . . . we not suppose to state facts in these forums?

OK, I get it now! There are consequence for my actions!

Like, reading books on EVOLUTION!!! Yeah! I deserve to go to Hell for that one!

My own brother tried to steal a shotgun from a neighbor to blow me away, because he felt that my wanting to build an 8 inch Newtonian reflector telescope was being disruptive or our family. I had bought a kit from the Edmund Scientific Company for about $25 dollars. My brother was in the high school marching band, and he had a trumpet that was over $150 dollars. My mother worked her butt off for him, and I was wearing old clothes. No, I wasn't suppose to have anything. I guess I was just suppose to go outside and bounce a basketball, while my brother had a neat marching uniform and a shinny trumpet.

Yeah! Consequence for my actions.

Well, when I was living up in Carlton, Minnesota, I didn't go around beating up on the homeless people (hobos) who came in off the freight trains as some of the other kids in my neighborhood had done, and were never punished or held accountable for it!

I never burned down some old man's shack out in the wood, as some of the kids in my neighborhood had done, and were never held accountable for it!

I had never thrown stones at a pregnant woman, as some of the kids in my neighborhood had done, and were never punished for it.

Oh! But you say, that I deserved the consequence of my own actions.

What actions? Like, wanting to read an Astronomy book? Maybe I should have asked for a BIBLE instead???

Oh! I also deserved to have my left wrist fractured and get struck on the back of my head with a machete as punishment for wanting to be on the Internet and listening to Art Bell on my radio!

Punishment for wanting to use my own eyes and ears!

I would have been better off if I had been born deaf and blind!

Ya know . . . I remember back when I fell out of the car, when my left knee struck the pavement.  I remember a big truck that rolled by, a big 18 wheeler and it missed me by about a foot.

I wish that God damn truck would have rolled right over me. I would be at peace now!

Yeah! Consequences for my actions, like wanting to read a book, or wanting to build a telescope.

Consequences for my actions, like wanting to be on line and listening to my radio.

And my reward for trying to take care of an older man recovering from a stroke, was to get hacked up with a machete!

So, I deserved everything that had happened to me, except the rape.

No, I'm evil, I'm Satan's child, so I deserved everything that had happened to me!

So, maybe, I guess, I also deserved to get raped!

Anyway . . . thanks a lot, Mrs. Earl!!!

You're right! You're absolutely right, and I'm wrong!

You have God on your side!

Hey! Look on the bright side!

Maybe Republican Ted Cruz will get elected President in 2016, and his father, Raphael Cruz, an evangelist preacher, will have all the unbelievers like me placed into an internment camp.

Hey! Maybe I'll hang!

You all can have fun watching me swing!

No wait! I forgot! In Texas, they do lethal injection on the gurney.

They love the gurney, because, with the arm rests extended out to the sides, it look like a cross!

Amen!

========================================

OK, now Earl has said . . . . .


Earl wrote:Big Fat Heretic, I've only glanced at your first post; but the following comments in your post above caught my attention.

"Has it ever occurred to you . . . that maybe . . . just maybe . . . the reason why so many kids feel too discouraged to engage in another other physical activities, after having been bullied in the school gym, is that because, these kids are being probably raised by helicopter Mommies and helicopter Daddies, hovering over them and watching their every move?"

That's hogwash.  You're making a broad generalization that in many cases doesn't hold true.  I speak as someone who would be a subject case.  My parents certainly weren't of the "helicopter" variety.  If anything, I received far less guidance and supervision than I should have.  You also don't take into account the fact that some nonathletic boys might have needs that differ from those you had when you were a child, but you don't seem to have much regard for the needs of others when they don't coincide with your own.  The fact remains that you derailed my topic since, according to you, everything said in a forum must conform to your likes and dislikes.


NO! I merely wanted to give an example of how my case was different, and that there are some exceptions to the rules.

Again, as I had said earlier . . . .

EXCUSE ME FOR BEING DIFFERENT AND FOR BEING AN INDIVIDUAL!

Then you said . . . . .


Earl wrote:The problem is that you often don't respect others' differences.  I strongly suspect that you wish everyone were like you.  For example, even though you knew I was committed to a bodybuilding program, you once said I should grow a paunch.  It was like hearing a blackboard being raked by fingernails.


Hey! I was only joking! OK???

I was once told that I should get my left leg amputated and have an artificial leg installed so that I would be able to run better, and I was even sent an image of the prosthesis in a really rude E-mail from some other forum. This was a few years before I found the Sports Sucks forum.

And, I was also told that I should have given up the idea of pursuing a science education, and just settle for being a greeter at a Walmart!

Yeah! Being told that I should get my left leg amputated and replaced with a prostheses, like the one that was depicted in the E-mail sent to me, that was worse that hearing a blackboard raked by fingernails. It was like somebody running a file over my teeth!!! I'll take fingernails on a blackboard anytime over having a file on the teeth!!!

Anyway . . . . .

As I has said earlier to Mrs. Earl . . . I would have been better off if I had been born deaf and blind.

Or better still . . .  back when I was 4 years old when I and fell out of the car, if that great big 18 wheeler had just rolled over me, I would be at peace now.

I don't know . . .  

. . . . . do you think maybe I should just stand in my shower and stick my thumb in the overhead light socket?

Nah! I won't give anybody here the satisfaction.

I'll just have a cup of coffee and a cigar instead.

I'm outta here!
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Re: Study: Kids Bullied in Gym, Sports Avoid Future Activity

Post by Earl on Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:25 am

There's much more I could say at this point (including a number of frank observations), but I want to limit my comments to a section you wrote on bullied kids, which I've quoted below:

So, I want to know what percent of kids tend to avoid any future physical activities after having been bullied, and what percentage do continue to be physically active in some way other than sports. Gimme the HR Diagram for that!!!

What percentage continue to do other physical activities other then sports???

Or, are these other things, such as, riding a bicycle, or rowing a boat, or hiking in the forest, etc. etc. etc. are these not also considered physical activities? Or is only sports considered physical activities??? If so, then the data is skewed toward the wrong direction!

Well . . . . . here's my designation! My HR Diagram! OK?

I guess that those kids who tend to avoid any further physical activities after having been bullied around in school, those are Population I kids, and those of us who are the exception to the rule, we were Population II kids.

OK! OK! I guess that's not a very good designation. Well, either way, both groups deserve equal human rights! So, we don't all bow down and submit like docile sheep after having been bullied around. Of course, those of us who don't submit, those of us who do fight back to defend ourselves, we usually get deeper into trouble, like for example: during recess one day, we were outside for awhile. Well . . . this one larger kid and I, we got into a fight, and he kicked me in the testicles. I was doubled over in pain, then, after the pain subsided, I got back up on my feet, and then I knocked him down. I was on top of him punching him in the face. This rather large teacher who was field monitor that day, she grabbed me by the collar, choking me all the way to the principal's office. Yeah! I got into trouble just for defending myself. No, I guess I was suppose to be a docile and complaint human punching bag!!!

So, the Population I type of kids just put up with the bullying, and those of us who were Population II kids, we just got deeper into trouble, and sometime we get really pissed off, and then, we go super nova!!!

The bottom line is this . . . . that in my particular case, and perhaps in a few other cases out there, getting bullied around in school and in the gym, that did not stop me from enjoying other activities outside of school and sports. wrote:

I believe the researchers were concerned with the sort of physical activites that medical doctors say are conducive to good health.  When a doctor tells his patient to get some exercise, he's not talking about sports.  You stated some nonsense about "helicopter" parents.  The researchers were concerned about factors that have to do with thoughts and attitudes of the bullied kids.  I've made many Google searches on phys ed bullying, and I've read many posts of those who suffered such bullying when they were young.  More than a few of them said that they had been discouraged from engaging in any vigorous activity in a gym or health club or any such activity that resembled a sport.  That certainly was true in my case.  I wouldn't even set foot in a health club until I was 57 years old.  I also had been physically assaulted by bigger kids on a number of occasions during my early preteens.  These incidents were apparently traumatic because I had no memory of them.  My sister, who is seven years older than I, did remember them and tearfully related them to Mrs. Earl and our two daughters on an occasion when I was not present.  Even at the age of nine, I felt nervous being in the presence of an upperclassman who was big and strong, despite the fact that he was being friendly to me.  At that time I had no idea why I reacted that way, but I do know and understand now.  I've met big, muscular guys at my health club who are quite friendly; and I'm also aware that athletes are a rather diverse group of people.

Regarding your two hypothetical "Populations" of bullied kids, I'm glad you said they're both entitled to human rights.  Before I continue, I must say, though, that I'm not sure you can say that all the bullied kids who did not fight back were the ones who did not engage in physical activities.  Remember, in my case (which I believe to be representative in many cases), I made an incorrect, but understandable association in my mind.  I associated athleticism and muscular build with bullying.  

If you had said that the bullied kids who don't fight back were an inferior group who were to blame for their own bullying, you definitely would have lost me as a friend because I was one of the kids who didn't fight back.  (There was a single occasion when I tried to hit my leading tormentor in high school with a textbook in a homeroom class, but I missed.)  First, I was trying to follow the old (and flawed) advice "If you ignore him, he will eventually go away."  Many of these kids have no self-confidence for whatever reason, as was true of me.  The main reason I didn't fight back was because I was not physically strong and I knew that all of my bullies were physically stronger than me (although I must say that thanks to my bodybuilding program, I'm probably in far better shape than all of them today). So, I thought "What's the point of fighting back? They'll just beat me up, anyway." (Again, that would not happen today. Some of them might be surprised at my appearance and demeanor.)  And some kids (including even some strong ones) won't fight back because their disposition is too gentle.

I agree that the best way to deal with a bully is to be able to land some good punches or at least intimidate him physically.  I'm sorry that you were penalized for fighting back, but you're not the only one. Far from it.  Both greencom and HugeFan had that experience when they were kids.  You cannot blame kids who don't fight back on what happens to those kids who do fight back.  In some ways (especially in terms of self-esteem), the ones who don't fight back suffer even more emotionally.

Since I live in the real world, I won't have time to post in this thread for the rest of week.  I have several deadlines I must meet by Saturday evening.

By the way, BFH, you should seriously consider what Mrs. Earl has said.  You would benefit from it if you did.  

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Re: Study: Kids Bullied in Gym, Sports Avoid Future Activity

Post by Mrs. Earl on Wed Apr 29, 2015 3:41 am

Congratulations!  After pages and pages of off-topic comments, you finally got around to saying something about the article Earl originally posted.  Granted, this doesn’t change the fact that you originally said that the study was wrong because you actually got a lot of exercise in the summer months.  And it doesn’t change the fact that you recently said that the study was wrong because the inactivity of bullied kids was not due to the fact that they had been bullied, but to physical restrictions placed upon them by their parents.  But at least you did admit that the study had a scientific basis and asked for the test results.  So, that is a step in the right direction.

Do you want to know why I call you self-centered?  Go back and reread the last paragraph of your post.  What you basically said was “It was okay for me to annoy Earl because somebody else annoyed me.”  It’s all about you.

This seems as good a spot to refute your lie that I called you self-centered because you’re a secular humanist.  If I remember correctly, Skul has said he is an agnostic; but I certainly do not consider him to be self-centered.  I believe ThinWhiteDuke has also said that he’s an agnostic; but he certainly is not self-centered.  HugeFanOfBadReligion has also said that he’s either an atheist or an  agnostic, but he is not self-centered.  There are many other atheists or agnostics I could name who are not self-centered; but you, sir, always think of yourself first.  And in case you’re wondering, clicking a button on a computer to sign a petition does not impress me with your great humanitarianism.  

Do you want to know why I call you a hypocrite?  Because you expect everyone to treat you with respect but you treat no one with respect.

You say “facts, facts, facts.”  So, you feel like you were not treating Earl with contempt because you only stated facts.  Hmmm . . . so, it’s a “fact” that all fundamentalists come home from church on Sunday and beat their wives and rape their daughters and commit acts of bestiality before they sit down to watch the football game?  So, it’s a “fact” that all creationists believe the world is flat?  So, it’s a “fact” that creationists know nothing about science?  So, it’s a “fact” that the typical Christian is a convicted felon?  So, it’s a “fact” that all creationists are so stupid that they need to go back to kindergarten where they can play in the sandbox and poop in their diapers?  Whatever possessed me to think that you were being disrespectful to anybody?  Rolling Eyes

You do not seem to understand what the phrase “consequences to your actions” means.  So, let me try and explain it to you.  The consequence of your cussing out the coach when he told you to climb the rope was being expelled from school.  The consequence of cussing out your 5th-grade teacher when he told you you couldn’t read the astronomy book was your being thrown against a wall.  The consequence of your cussing out your roommate when he got mad at you for being on the Internet was being attacked by a psychopath with a machete.  And as for the famous incident when you wanted to build a telescope, I’d like a few more facts.  Did your mother buy it for you?  Did you save up your money for it?  Or did you, perhaps, just take some money you found lying around and go out and buy it because you felt your parents were always spending money on your brother and not on you?  If the third scenario is the true one, then, once again, your brother’s reaction was a consequence of your actions.  The word “consequence” is not a synonym for the word “deserve,” but it is the word that describes a principle in real life:  When you do something, there is a reaction to your actions.
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Re: Study: Kids Bullied in Gym, Sports Avoid Future Activity

Post by Big Fat Heretic on Wed Apr 29, 2015 8:01 am

Good evening Mrs. Earl:

OK, you had said the following:


Mrs. Earl wrote:You do not seem to understand what the phrase “consequences to your actions” means.  So, let me try and explain it to you.  The consequence of your cussing out the coach when he told you to climb the rope was being expelled from school.  The consequence of cussing out your 5th-grade teacher when he told you you couldn’t read the astronomy book was your being thrown against a wall.  The consequence of your cussing out your roommate when he got mad at you for being on the Internet was being attacked by a psychopath with a machete.  And as for the famous incident when you wanted to build a telescope, I’d like a few more facts.  Did your mother buy it for you?  Did you save up your money for it?  Or did you, perhaps, just take some money you found lying around and go out and buy it because you felt your parents were always spending money on your brother and not on you?  If the third scenario is the true one, then, once again, your brother’s reaction was a consequence of your actions.  The word “consequence” is not a synonym for the word “deserve,” but it is the word that describes a principle in real life:  When you do something, there is a reaction to your actions.


NO! When I was in grade school, living up in Minnesota, I didn't cuss yet.

I was about 13 years old before I started cussing, after we had moved down to Truth Or Consequences, New Mexico.

The first time when I was suspended from school, was the incident in the gym where I was unable to climb the rope. I did not cuss out the coach! When it was my turn to climb the rope, I tried very hard. I wanted to get at least 1/3 or 1/4 of the way up, but I was not able to climb at all because of my crippled up left knee.

The other kids started laughing, and I kept yelling at them to stop laughing, but I didn't cuss at anyone. I was about 10 years old at the time, and the coach, he just grabbed me by the ear and started twisting, and made me walk to the principal's office.

While I was there, the principal told me I was going to be kicked out of school. I objected, because I thought that was unfair, because I didn't break any rules. I was only unable to climb the rope. I did express my objections to being kicked out of school, but I did not cuss.

Well . . .  I was given two choices.

1.) Get kicked out of school and sent home to my parents.

2.) Or get locked up in the closet overnight, and then, the authorities would pick me up, and I would be taken to the detention facility in Red Wing.

So, I chose being sent home to my parents instead.

Yeah! Wouldn't that be nice, having something like that on my record, being in a detention facility. And for what? Having a physical handicap and being unable to climb a stupid rope?

I had read about how in Nazi Germany, under Adolf Hitler, people with physical handicaps were exterminated. And back in the 1960s, kids in our schools, with physical handicaps were discriminated against.

I had a girl friend, she was kind of chubby, and she was cute. I liked her and we got along great. I was her friend when the other kids were teasing her. She had a brace on her leg, and the other kids teased her because she "walked funny"  with that brace on her leg. Her family moved out of that town, moved into a bigger city, Duluth, where they had better schools. I really missed her after her family moved out.

This was back in the 1960s when handicapped kids were discriminated against in some schools in dirty little towns. This was back when we had prayer in school, before it was eventually ruled unconstitutional. This was after we put God on our money, and in to the Pledge of Allegiance, which wasn't there originally. Yeah! This was back when America began trusting God more, and our children even less!

Now, getting to the 5th grade, the incident where I had my head bashed against the wall in a argument over and Astronomy book that I wasn't allowed to check out from the school library.

NO! I did not cuss at the teacher!

I merely asked why all the other kids were allowed to check out any book they wanted, while I was not. I had even reminded him, of what was said during one of our history classes, about all people being created equally.

Yes, I felt anger inside, but I did not cuss out the teacher.

Anyway . . . . . he dragged me out into the hallway, and then he grabbed me by the shoulders, and pushed me back against the wall, bashing the back of my head against the corner of the concrete block wall.

I felt really dizzy, and then I blacked out. When my lights came on again, I found myself sitting in the principal's office not knowing how I got there. I felt sick and dizzy, and needed to go home.

OK, the following year that teacher was fired.  

But for me the damage was done. I had a severe head concussion from the blow to the back of my head.

I was 11 years old at the time, and from the age of 11 and through out my teenage years I would come home from school with headaches. When I would lay down, I could not lay on my back. It felt like the room was rocking. So, I would sit up, and sort of shake my head, and the dizziness would go away.

Before that, I would go out into the back yard at night, lay a blanket on the ground, and look up at the sky with a pair of binoculars. But after the head bashing incident, I could not lay on my back anymore.

As I got older, into my early 20s, I didn't have the dizzy spells and headaches anymore.

OK, finally, when I was 13 years old, and our family was living in Truth Or Consequences, New Mexico, that was when I started cussing. After having a head injury inflicted on me back when I was 11 years old, I felt that I didn't have to be polite anymore when ever I was being mistreated.

This was when I was 13 years old, during gym.

We were being taught wrestling techniques. So, we had the wrestling mats laid out on the gym floor.

Before the lessons were to start, this one kid who was much larger, he jumped me from behind, and pinned me down to the mat. He had both of my arms behind my back. My shoulders were hurting, especially my left shoulder. Back when I was 9 years old, I had surgery under my left arm to have a bone growth removed, an "exostosis" it was called. Before the surgery, I could feel a lump under my left arm that was pinching a nerve. It was caused by a bone growth that had to be surgically removed. To this very day, when I look in the mirror, I can still see the small surgical scar under my left arm.

Anyway . . . . . getting back to the incident again . . . . .

When I had my arms twisted behind me, my left shoulder was hurting, but the bigger kid had refused to let go. Finally the coach said, "OK, you can let him go now" and then, the coach got on top of me. When I was 13 years old, I only weighed about 130 pounds and the coach, he weighed about 250 pounds. While he was on top of me, he was pinching the nerves in the back of my neck, and I felt a tingling sensation going down my spine. I panicked, because I was afraid that I might get a permanent spinal injury. So, I kicked and struggled to get away.

Then, I took off across the gym. When the coach told me to get back, that was when I told him to GO TO HELL!!!

That was the very first time I had ever cussed at a teacher! The very first time!

He dragged me to the principal's office.

OK, when I explained to the principal about the other kid jumping me, and starting the fight, at first, they were going to suspend the other kid for a couple of days.

But then . . . . . the coach sucked up to the principal, saying that the other kid was the school's best track runner, pole vaulter, and the school's best basketball player, and there was a game coming up.

So, I got the boot instead, which lead to a three year suspension from school.

Yeah! Athletes have more rights! They can get away with just about anything! But, the rest of us, I guess GOD must have put us on this planet to be their human punching bags!

After that incident, we moved down from Truth Or Consequences to Las Cruces, New Mexico. That was in April of 1966.

But I was not allowed to return to school yet. I had to go for psychological counseling at Doña Ana Mental Health, and then I went to a day center for classes from 9:00 AM to 1:00 PM when I would finally come home.

I was suppose to be in the 7th grade, but I was being held back.

OK, one day, after coming home from that stupid day center, I got on my bike and decided to go to the public library. So, I got myself a library card, and came home with a bunch of books.

Well, when my case worker from Doña Ana Mental Health found out about my getting a library card, and a second card from the University Library at NMSU, she dropped by our house, and she wanted to take my library cards away from me. But my mother stood up in my defense.

It was bad enough not being allowed to go to school. My mother felt that I should at least have the right to a library card. So, after arguing over it for nearly an hour, the case worker finally gave in, and allowed me to have the cards.    

So, now you can see what kind of helicopter nanny NAZIS we have gaming the system!

But Oh! You like to pass judgement on me and make all kinds of assumptions!!!

And NO, I did not cuss out my ex-room-mate before he attacked me with a machete.

OK, we use to tell each other dirty jokes, and he liked to watch porn, and he would often have some woman overnight in his bedroom. But I didn't care. We were adults, and whatever made him happy, as long as I could listen to the radio in my room and be on the internet.

He had his thing, and I had my thing!

OK, he had high blood pressure, and yet, he had a doctor prescribe him Viagra.

Now, I'm not a doctor or a medical expert, but I don't think someone with high blood pressure should be given Viagra. I think that is probably what brought on his second stroke. I don't know.

All I know, is that after his second stroke, he had severe memory loss, and became paranoid and delusional, and then he became violent. And I was not able to get any help to take care of him during his recovery from his stroke.

I should have walked out on him! But I couldn't. That's because I'm a stupid chump! I don't believe in abandoning someone who is ill. But I should have walked out!

So, the only thing I'm really guilty of is being a stupid chump!!!

Anyway . . . . . we had an agreement, that I would go on line with my computer after 9:30 PM so that the phones would be free during the day. But, he had forgotten our original agreement, and we did get into an argument, that we BOTH used some cuss words. What the Hell, we were both adults.

Oh no! I keep forgetting!

I'm just an underling! I don't have the same rights as other people! Like, I was suppose be polite to my room-mate and not use cuss words, while he was cussing at me???

OK! BOW WOW! BOW WOW! I'm a bad doggie! Hit me over the nose with a rolled up newspaper!

NO! The rent was in my name! The utilities were in my name! And the phone was in my name!

Anyway . . .  he went into his room and came out swinging a machete! I didn't even know he had one until that night.

Well . . . I was the one who spent three days in the hospital, and he got hauled off to the slammer!

That was the very first time in my life that another person got into trouble for assaulting me! Yeah! I was born on September 30,1951 and it was not until the night of July 8,2001 when another person got into trouble for assaulting me! So, it was about 50 years before any kind of justice was ever done on my behalf!!! 50 GOD DAMN YEARS!!!

And now . . . getting to the incident when my brother tried to steal a shotgun from a neighbor to blow me away, because he felt that my wanting to build a telescope was being disruptive of our family.

NO! I did not steal any money to buy the kit to build the telescope. My mother bought it for me.

I had been to the university library, and while looking through their issues of Sky And Telescope, I wrote down the address of various optical companies and ordered a bunch of catalogues.

Then, I ordered a kit from the Edmund Scientific Company.

I DID NOT STEAL ANY GOD DAMN MONEY TO BUT THE KIT GOD DAMN IT!!!

Do you really think that I would steal from my own mother???

OK, my brother and I, we shared the same bedroom. I wanted to keep the bedroom clean, and I only requested, that my brother would not hang his dusty jacket on the curtain rod. When grinding and eventually polishing the mirror blank, the room has to be kept clean and as dust-proof as possible.

Well, when I told my brother to not hang his jacket on the curtain rod, he got really pissed off, and started kicking me with his cowboy boots, and he liked to kick me in my crippled up left leg! Yeah! back in the 1970s I was a hippy and my brother was a stomper. I liked rock, and he liked trashy redneck music. He was a Republican and I was a Democrat.

Anyway . . . he tried to steal a shotgun from a neighbor. Fortunately, when the neighborhood saw my brother coming out of his house, he took the shotgun away from him.

Now, didn't my brother ever stop and think, that if he had killed me with the shotgun, that there would have been some really serious consequences for him???

But NNNNNNNOOOOOOOOO!

You think that I'm the one who should have to face consequences.

OK, I get it now!!!

I like to study science, I accept Evolution, because of the evidence that supports it, but I deserve to die, because, after all, America is a Christian nation, and all the good Christians and Republicans . . . well . . . we all can't have all these science nerds and geeks pestering America about the earth being 4.5 billion years old.

Yeah! Go ahead and kill me, but there are too many of us out there, and you can't get to all of us.

OK, it's getting late, my left wrist and hand are starting to hurt again, I'm going to have a late snack, have some dark roast coffee, and smoke my pipe before gong to bed.

Thank you very much Mrs. Earl, for calling me a thief!!!

I'm not going to get very much sleep tonight.

Ya know . . . . . on the day when Jesus was crucified on the hill between a couple of thieves . . .

. . . there were actually three thieves up on the hill that day . . .

. . . and the one in the middle was the worst!!!

GOOD NIGHT!!!
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Re: Study: Kids Bullied in Gym, Sports Avoid Future Activity

Post by Brigan on Wed Apr 29, 2015 8:46 pm

Big Fat Heretic wrote:When it was my turn to climb the rope, I tried very hard. I wanted to get at least 1/3 or 1/4 of the way up, but I was not able to climb at all because of my crippled up left knee.

PF.... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH that's funny.
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Re: Study: Kids Bullied in Gym, Sports Avoid Future Activity

Post by Earl on Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:11 am


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Re: Study: Kids Bullied in Gym, Sports Avoid Future Activity

Post by Big Fat Heretic on Thu Apr 30, 2015 4:30 am

OK, Brigan and Earl:

I've had quite enough of this BULLSHIT!!!

So, Brigan, you think it's funny! Eh?

Well, I hope someday you're in a car wreck that leaves you limping and in pain for the rest of your life!!! Only you get it in both knees!

GO FUCK YOURSELF!!!

And Earl . . . . . Your wife, Mrs. Earl, implied that I was a thief, that I stole from my own mother!

OK, you guys win, I concede, I lose!

You win, because you have GOD on your side!!!

And I hope you'll be very happy if Ted Cruz becomes President in 2016, and that his father, Raphael Cruz, has fun torturing me in one of his internment camps for not believers!

Fuck this shit!!!
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Re: Study: Kids Bullied in Gym, Sports Avoid Future Activity

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